Project 59: Front suspension Overhaul

[Wayne at Pelican Parts]

Got any questions on Project 59 for your E36 or E30? Ask them here!

-Wayne

[shadowpuck]

First off, received the book as a Xmas gift and it is great! Going with the project oriented approach makes it perfect for having the information you need right there in a concise format. As I'm preparing for a lot of work to my e36 (suspension, auto-manual conversion) it'll be a great assistant!

Now, a quick question on this project (59):
Front Suspension Overhaul.

The book mentions something about special lubricant when installing the bushings on the end of the control arm. It also said something about checking the site for ideas of other ways to complete this task. Any suggestions?

[Jeron]

I used water with a couple of drops of soap to lube the control arm and the inside of the CAB. I also cleaned the arm with a scouring pad to remove the grime at the tip. I tapped the CAB on with a hammer using a socket that was larger than the tip of the arm and about the same size as the center of the CAB. Once the CAB was started on I could easily slide ti in to position by hand.

The hard part of replacing the CAB's is finding a machine shop that will press the new CAB's in the lollipops/carriers for a reasonable price.

[elirentz]

Any tips on getting the nut off of the inner ball joint on the control arm? I've tried going through the engine bay but there is alot in the way and I can't get enough room to get torque on it from down below>

[HGS]

Originally Posted by elirentz

Any tips on getting the nut off of the inner ball joint on the control arm? I've tried going through the engine bay but there is alot in the way and I can't get enough room to get torque on it from down below>

You can reach it with an open end wrench from underneath coming from the front of the car.

[elirentz]

The motor mounts, steering rack, etc.... are in the way from the front aren't they?

[HGS]

Originally Posted by elirentz

The motor mounts, steering rack, etc.... are in the way from the front aren't they?

Not really. There are some suspension components between you and that nut, but it can be reached. As I recall you will only be able to turn the wrench about 1/4 turn so it is slow going.

[dobbike1]

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I had similar problems. I was using your article on the 3 series control arm replacement as a loose guide to replace mine on a 5 series. The problem I am having is that I cant get the end of the arm to come off the "wheel side" of the arm. I have remove the nut from the plate that it attaches to. I figured that it would the just slide off with some tapping from a rubber mallet. It does not want to give at all. Anyone know how to remove it?

THX,
Ken

[HGS]

Originally Posted by dobbike1

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The problem I am having is that I cant get the end of the arm to come off the "wheel side" of the arm. I have remove the nut from the plate that it attaches to. I figured that it would the just slide off with some tapping from a rubber mallet. It does not want to give at all. Anyone know how to remove it?

THX,
Ken

Not sure from your description because the E30/E36 control arm is one piece and you wouldn't 'get the end of the arm to come off of the arm". Most have trouble getting the inner ball joint out of its socket. It takes much more than tapping. I used an air hammer and a tool rented from Advanced Auto called a 'pickle fork'. I've pointed this out before- The Pelican Parts DIY writeup is very misleading in that it makes the removal of the inner ball joint nut and the freeing of the ball joint sound like it is no harder than loosening a battery terminal.

Advanced Auto (and other parts stores too) will let you borrow a 'suspension kit' and a 'ball joint kit' (with a deposit) that include the pickle fork and also a set of gear pullers that you will need in order to remove the bushing carrier (Lollipop) from the end of the control arm.

[E30Hooligan]

Ok I wish to help where I have done and ask Help where I need it. I'm at the tail end of replacing my control arms and bushings and have done everything but Press the bushings onto the stub of the Control Arm. I tried an earlier suggested method of using soapey water and I could get the bushing about 1/3 of the way on but it wont just slide down like mentioned. As wayne put it no amount of hammering, pressing, pushing, or swearing will get those bushings far enough down the CA stub. I know there are DIY'ers who have done this, What's your input guys or Moderatiors, or Wayne, whom suggests going to this site for more information when "in a pinch"? All helpful information is very much appreciated.

Struggling with the center balljoint nut? Ok you need to buy some tools; this is what you need exactly. 22mm socket 3/8 drive - 12pt, 3/8 drive swivel joint, 3/8 to 1/2 adapter, 2 20inch 1/2 drive extentions then a good size 1/2 drive wrench. Just remove the top half of the Motor mount heatsheild and you'll have enough clearence and the nut comes off in about 30 seconds from start to finish.

[Jeron]

Reread my post above to get the CAB on the arm.

[HGS]

Originally Posted by E30Hooligan

...... As wayne put it no amount of hammering, pressing, pushing, or swearing will get those bushings far enough down the CA stub. I know there are DIY'ers who have done this, What's your input guys or Moderatiors, or Wayne, whom suggests going to this site for more information when "in a pinch"? All helpful information is very much appreciated.

Struggling with the center balljoint nut? Ok you need to buy some tools; this is what you need exactly. 22mm socket 3/8 drive - 12pt, 3/8 drive swivel joint, 3/8 to 1/2 adapter, 2 20inch 1/2 drive extentions then a good size 1/2 drive wrench. Just remove the top half of the Motor mount heatsheild and you'll have enough clearence and the nut comes off in about 30 seconds from start to finish.

I was able to get the bushings all the way onto the control arm by hand just by twisting them back and forth as I pushed. The bushings I used were the M3 bushings rather than the standard 3 series. Perhaps that made the difference.

As far as the inner balljoint nut goes, I'm sure your method works (but I don't see why you needed 40" worth of extensions) but so did mine as described above and it only required an open end wrench.

[E30Hooligan]

I did read your post however I still couldn't get the bushings on. However I was able to get them using this trick...it takes about 10 seconds no hammering and they just slide right on with some suspension grease. Put the bushings in the freezer for about 2 hours untill they have frost on them and the metal housing. mount the C-arm on a vise and push them on....takes very little effort (10 seconds or less). Reasoning: The cold freezes the rubber sleve and takes away the Grip and makes it so it doesn't cling onto the control arm stub as you try to push them further down. I would recomend this to all.

[HGS]

Originally Posted by E30Hooligan

I did read your post however I still couldn't get the bushings on. However I was able to get them using this trick...it takes about 10 seconds no hammering and they just slide right on with some suspension grease. Put the bushings in the freezer for about 2 hours untill they have frost on them and the metal housing. mount the C-arm on a vise and push them on....takes very little effort (10 seconds or less). Reasoning: The cold freezes the rubber sleve and takes away the Grip and makes it so it doesn't cling onto the control arm stub as you try to push them further down. I would recomend this to all.

Good idea. The cold might help by shrinking the bushing so that the diameter of the inner hole gets a bit larger. Don't think I'd use suspension grease because the idea is to use a lubricant that evaporates or dries up and lets the bushing bond to the control arm. I've read that the BMW lubricant has a kerosene base and evaporates so quickly that they recommend getting the bushing on the arm, the arm on the car and the car on the ground within 20-30 minutes so that when the bushing bonds to the arm it is loaded properly and in the right position.

[Ron97M3]

Questions about the CABs

1. Why does the orientation of the CAB in the bracket matter?

2. Why do the CABs have holes?

3. Why does BMW spec lube that sets to glue in 30 minutes if soap would be as good?

4. Where can one get the lube #81-22-9-407-284?

My theories/answers are as follows ..

Answer to #1 - Because the orientation of the holes in the CAB matters to
the orientation of the control arm.

Answer to #2 - To relieve stress and/or permit more movement in a certain
direction only.

Answer to #3 - special lube glue is really needed and regular soap isn't that glue. The glue causes the rubber to be stuck to the arm so that rubber doesn't rub and wear on arm and/or so holes allow more arm movement in certain directions only. Regular soap won't glue the rubber in place and that
must be needed. At least to prevent wear and perhaps to keep hole orientation during flexing of control arm.

Answer to #4 - I hope someone can tell us, I don't find it on Pelicanparts!

So Wayne what do you know and think?

[Ron97M3]

Can't one just use a bench vise to press the cabs into the brackets a little at
a time. I have seen writeups showing it done this way.

Please respond to my prior longer post about special glue, holes and
why they are needed in the design.

[HGS]

I don't know for sure but I think the BMW lube is just a lube to help get the bushing onto the control arm. Diswasher soap also does this and takes longer to dry up and go away so the DIY mechanic doesn't have to get it all done in 20 minutes. The bonding of the bushing to the control arm is not based on 'glue'. It is probably caused by friction and heat. When it is bonded the bushing acts sort of like a torsion bar. The cutouts in the bushing influence how the bushing behaves under tension and that is why the orientation of those cutouts is important.

[HGS]

Originally Posted by Ron97M3

Can't one just use a bench vise to press the cabs into the brackets a little at
a time. I have seen writeups showing it done this way.

Please respond to my prior longer post about special glue, holes and
why they are needed in the design.

I believe you can use a vise to press the new bushings into the carrier but not to push that assembly onto the control arm. (I just took mine over to a local mechanic and paid him $20 to press out the old ones and press in the new)

[Jeron]

BMW always has a part number for everything, including an array a "special tools" that are unnecessary.

The purpose of the special lube is:
help slide the bushing on
let the bushing twist into position when the car is back on the ground after the job
eventually dissipate so the bushing will no longer slide freely on the arm

There are a lot of things that could be used. Many, many people have used mild soapy water for this, including me.

[malange]

I've read all the posts / replies, and I own Wayne's 101 book, and I must agree with Ron97M3 with one modification:
The special BMW chemical may be more of a solvent than an adhesive. My guess is that it works to dissolve some of the rubber on the Inside Diameter of the bushing, and basically 'cures' it to bond with the metal control arm. (Similar to the vulcanising process when using rubber cement to install tire and tube patches.)
This chemical process slows as the VOC's evaporate from the bushing, within 30-40 minutes. The solvent has the secondary benefit of lubricating the arm for assembly, but the bushing could be pressed on without lubricant, using appropriate tools, assuming this bonding process weren't so important.

Interesting note: I've contacted 3 BMW dealers in my area, and
a) NONE of them could find this part #, which is also printed in the Bentley manual
b) NONE of them actually use this for repairs; they all have homemade remedies, ranging from kerosene, turpentine, dish soap, to glass cleaner??!!
So much for 'Factory Trained Specialists'.

I'm doing the job this weekend, and I'll be using Ketone, only because I know it will act as a solvent, and will evaporate rapidly (and I have some already). I'm also openly saying that I'm not comfortable with this, and I would gladly pay them for the right stuff, if they could only figure out how to get it.
Cheers!