M3: E36 or E46? Issues, problems, reliability?
 

Thought I'd try to sneek in this post before it gets moved to OT :). I am looking for an all around practical and performance car to replace my 80SC. I have never really considered a bimmer, but I thought I'd give them a look. Should I consider the pre-1999 E36, or the later E46? Any known major issues with these? Are they pretty much track-worthy out of the box? Seems like a decent, average mileage E36 can be had in the high teens/low twenties. Still thinking 964 or another SC too. I am getting sick of driving a Honda Civic.......... :)

Thanks!

-B

I switched to an E36 M3 for a daily driver and I love it. Some of the weak spots of E36 M3's are oil pump nuts, trans bushings, and radiator necks sometimes crack.

Just like 911's, get the cleanest, latest one you can afford with good records.

(mine is the silver one)

http://rennlight.com/gallery/image/5000104.JPG

I was at a BMW dealership the other day and I looked at the 330i "sport" and the M3 competition. I will tell you what the suede material on the seats and steering wheels was to die for.....

Ok back to your question, I heard something about the engines in the E46 M3s seizing but cant rememeber specifics??

There was an excellent article on the e36 M3 in Automobile (I think) a while back and maybe Grass roots also. They are pretty rock solid. I really like the 4 door. You might try www.roadfly.com and read the faqs?? I have never done it so it mught be useless.

E36 in the vintage 97-98 are rock rock rock solid. The four door is more versatile than the 2 door. No more water pump bad impeller on the later one. The subframe is reinforced on M3 so that problem is fixed. There are still some small nagging stuff

1. transmission mounts go bad at 50K miles, making you mis-shift.
2. Thermostat breaks at 75K miles, and stuck open.
3. Radiator neck snaps at 60-90M miles (not yet on mine)

That is it, 240HP, 50-50 weight distribution, near perfect handling.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1112582961.jpg

I just sold a 95 m3, great car. Plenty of power, great a/c, handles better than a 993 (according to Car and Driver).

Earlier E46's had some major engine problems, seizures very common...by now I think it's been addressed. As with all BMW's 97 and up electrical gremlins rear their heads on a regular basis. I won't tell you all the problems I had with my '00 E46 but suffice to say there were alot of them... awesome handling and linear power though.

I seem to recall that the 95 M3s are more "tune-able" since they were OBD1. Later M3s were OBD2.

Too bad you guys down south didn't get the Euro version of the 95 M3 (~280hp) that us Canucks did :D. Make's it really easy to decide what year to get for the E36 cars! I could care less for four doors since it would mean a less powerful car in the E36 variety.

Did you try some of these pages:
http://www.bmw-forums.com/
http://www.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/
http://www.m3forum.com/

Cheers!

My son-in-law has a '97 M3. For every 2 days on the road, it seems like it spends one day in the shop.

I just sold my 1995 M3 with 110K on it, no performance mods, for $11K.

The 95's are more tuneable, but be careful as there are alot of hacks and ricers "trying" to upgrade the car.

You need to be wary of the rear subframe mounts that get ripped out from people drag racing the car - which it wasn't designed to do. The radiators supporsedly break at the neck, but at 110K mine was original and didn't have the problem.

I used mine as a daily driver in NE Ohio for 4 years without any sort of winter tires and did just fine and only got stuck once. You will need to look for rust on the 1995-96 cars as they are 10 years old. Check up front under the upper radiator mounts, under the rear trunk seal - especially down by the locking mechanism, and the seams in the rear wheel wells.

Get a PPI done, by an independant. I probably wouldn't buy one off of EBAY due to reasons above. Make sure there are receipts.

also, be careful with the wheels, with 40 series tires on it, they wheels get beat to hell on even small bumps.

Just my experience and observations. They are mostly owned by younger 18-25 year olds so the help isn't as concentrated on real problems on other boards. The questions that are focused on are "big stereo, wheels and oh man I blew up my engine dragging a mustang"

but have fun if you buy one, I miss mine.

Brian

The cool trick on the '95 M3 is to install the S52 (96-99) engine while stealthily retaining the OBDI brain. The OBDI system responds better to tweaks, and won't rat you out like the OBDII.

htp://forums.bimmerforums.com is the Pelican equiv in the BMW world. The M3 forums is here: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=63

Unfortunately, the emphasis there seems to be more on bling than zing. There's thread after thread on spoiler lips and 'angel eye' headlights, and scarcely anything on VANOS issues or other mechanical problems. Maybe M3's are too reliable.

Dakar yellow is my favorite M3 color, but I'm not a fan of the 4-door.

Don't forget the rear trailing arm bushings aka RTAB on bimmerforums. Been there, and I agree with Thom. Good number of nimrods to sift through before you get the info. you need.

Also the front control arm bushings go bad. But this is more common on the 328, since they're softer there.

The guibo/driveshaft coupler tends to go bad. It's a rubber damper between the trans. output shaft and the actual driveshaft. It'd be good to get the car up in the air to check that. You'll know it when you see it- rubber ring @ then end of the trans. tail.

Don't be so sure on the water pump issue. Helps to have service record on that. Even if it's been replaced, you could have a composite one in there that can fail. If it does fail? Just shut 'er down. Not that expensive to fix, even if you have to pay a shop for it. DIY? Heck yeah. Piece of cake.

Clutch pedals wear out. Easy fix. Put a new one in for $60 or so.

Steering wheels tend to squeak. Plastic bearings/bushings in the column go bad. Sound familiar? Must be a German thing.

Good cars. They really hustle. That inline six is sweet! Just gotta be patient in your search. I found alot of tired ones that weren't very well maintained. I actually passed on a mega nice red 97 luxury coupe. It was too nice. Probably shoulda bought it. Eventually gave up (because of the time of year) and settled on the Mazda. Someday i'll get one though!

Owned mine for 3 years now. '97, 90k miles. Rear shock mounts had to be replaced and that's about it. The only time it's been at a shop was for a radiator flush, because I didn't know what to do with the old fluid. Dead reliable, comfy, fast, good on the track, lots of mods available.

E46s had some early problems with the engine. As with most cars the E46 has moved again more to being a grand tourer from being a sports car.

Stef

Cooling issues seem to be the thing most people have mentioned, so i'll add to that.

Best to use the BMW coolant. It's been said that if you mix the BMW stuff with other extended life coolant (like GM Dex-Cool), you get a nasty sludgy solution. So suck it up and pay the extra few bucks per gal. for the BMW stuff.

Thanks for the replies! Man, I love that Dakar Yellow! Sounds like I have a bit of homework to do ....

-B

This might help ...

http://member.rivernet.com.au/btaylor/BMWText/technical/E36CommonProblems.html

Argo
88 Targa

I bought my 1998 M3 Sedan 5 speed from a friend with only 18K original miles 7 months ago. It is really fun to drive and handles great.

It is a great alternate to a fun driving car if the P-car is resting in the garage.

pics

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1112632078.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1112632103.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1112632183.jpg

I don't know about the steering wheel squeek or the clutch pedal wear out issue, but definitely had the rear shock mounts replaced twice in my ownership of my car.

If you do end up getting a 95, just make sure you take care of little problems early or the WILL turn into bigger problems later.....sounds like another german thing.

Also, check out www.roadfly.com for BBS

Brian

The trick is to NOT replace them with OE units. Either go for the E46 units or go aftermarket. I forget what I did. Anyway, pretty easy DIY.

The pedal doesn't wear out, the bushings do. Replace with Delrin. PITA, but not too tough.

Stef

Out of curiosity, how do you decide what such a car is worth between friends? I'm not asking how much it is worth, but I have thought it would be hard to establish a value on an unusual vehicle, between friends. In this case the mileage is of course what makes the vehicle unusual.

E46 rear shockmounts (convertible ones) are better.
Steering wheel does squeak, even after you fix it, it will return.
UUC tranny mounts are better, but with a little more vibration induced.

A note on rear shock mounts...


on my e30... i blew them out with stiff shocks hiting a pothole...
so i replaced them with stock e30's
the blew out again...
so i replaced them with e46 cabs
blew out again...


finaly i bought myself some nice aftermarket beefy ones.. problem solved!

o.k, I can't hold off any longer, so here's a list of problems I had with my E46 in no particular order.
A/C emptied into cabin 4 times before being fixed.
Engine overheated 5 times before being fixed requiring tows each time.
Rear shock mounts broke.
Engine would sometimes stall at idle.= Vanos replace
Intermitent loss of power.=Vanos(with above)
Doors sometimes wouldn't unlock, requiring Dukes of hazard exit thru windows!.
Transmission would sometimes jump out of first or second.
Trans would stick in 5th.
Problematic sunroof switch.
Propshaft vibration.
Windows would sometimes stay "dropped" when door was closed.
Noisy interior.
You could bend the rims just by kicking them.
I'm sure I forgot some stuff...I bought this car new and some things I just learnt to live with, some got fixed just to re-appear. I actually started "lemon law" proceedings at one point but the dealer and BMW N.A. paid me to keep it. Customer service was great but when I got rid of it I decided to give BMW a miss for a few years.

kobaltblau

I actually did not want to buy it from my friend and told him to simply place a AD and he can easily get high $20's for his car.

The KBB blue book at the time he wanted me to buy the car was $26K for that low mileage car.

The car was never driven in rain and was only driven once a week.
He works at home that is why.

He kept insisting for me to buy the car from him as he did not want the car to go to anyone he did not know.

I was the only friend who was somewhat interested, it took him 8 months of convincing me to buy it off him, he then lowered his price really low, I could not refuse the offer.

I bought it and very happy with the purchase, the car is immaculate.

It now has 22K miles.

thank you for the story, jtkkz. now I understand how it "went down"

Do you own a SyCip or are you part of SyCip? I am familiar with their work, but I own a Gunnar fixed gear.

Cheers,

Should have bought an E36.

so then you bought an 'audi2.7t'....... glutton for punishment!

kobaltblau

Iam one of the Sycip brothers, but Both my younger brothers are the ones behind the sycip bikes / powder coating company.

www.sycipdesigns.com

jtkkz, your brothers are craftsmen, they make beautiful things.

Wasn't my first choice, I had an E320 lined up but we test drove the Audi on a whim and it fit the bill better for a heavy footed wife (and husband) who both loved the luxury, performance and handling but also have two kids. Besides, it has a 100k factory warranty and only gets driven 70miles per week. Besides all the problems I had I do miss my Beemer and will probably get another in the future (540i). In retrospect to the Audi I probably should have bought a Lexus but overall I love the car, the only much needed upgrade I did was put 18" rims with decent tires on to let the Quattro really shine. I know my problems with BMW were not typical, more a case of "if it's going to happen, it'll happen to me" and I would never say no to owning an M3 of either vintage.

At least this post has automotive content.

The "show us your home" post didn't get moved and I don't have even a remote idea, what that had to do with Porsches? Well, actually the post was called something about Capitalism.

kobaltblau,

Aside form bikes and other metal fabircations stuff , we also started making a few porsche parts (early 911's).

Thru the horn grille brackets
RShields for webers and PMO's

We did a couple of triple outlets mufflers, that are being tested right now by fellow rgruppe members.

Cool!