964/993 turbo build
 

It's finally time to get started on this project affectionately known as Frankenstein. All the exhaust is off the car and I've convinced myself there's no sense in making an N/A exhaust and then altering for turbo and doing it twice so let's BEGIN!

A little about the Frankenstein -

Base Specs:
1992 (964) Carrera 4 Cabriolet chassis
- 3.6 twin plug non-vram motor
- 5 speed G50 normally found in 964 C4

Bodywork:
-993 wide body fenders and quarters
-993 turbo front and rear bumpers + lights and mirrors
-964 speedster shell, windshield, doors + glass

Essentially a 993 Speedster clone since only two people on this globe were lucky enough to get the real thing (Shout out to Ferdinand and Jerry Seinfeld):D
As you can very clearly see, the ship of "Porsche Purist" has long since sailed so it's time to amp up the crazy (and hopefully power) to a level matching the Frankenstein moniker.

In terms of my parts list; some things I have pretty well sorted out and a few other things I'll probably need some suggestions on as not too many people seem to be going this route on the 3.6's (I assume largely because of their value as a swap and their relatively high compression?)

Engine:
- mechanically, the plan here is to leave the engine completely stock internally... at least initially as it seems like a really healthy mill and I'll go on the conservative side power wise to keep things together
- looking to stay at 7lbs/0.5 BAR with high octane fuel and safe tune on the rich side
- what is your experience with the ceramic lining on the 964 heads? I hear bad things :eek:

Fueling and Engine Control:
- VEMS plug'n'play for 964
- E85 for fuel
- Siemens Deka 80lb injectors
- in-tank fuel pump upgrade *suggestions here please*

Exhaust/Turbo:
- 964 heat exchangers using collector where cat would be
- making a J-pipe from heat exchangers to single T3 or T4 flange with wastegate provision (leaning towards T4 due to the big displacement but worried about turbo physically fitting with that large of a frame)
- Thinking GT40/42 sized turbo to limit torque below peak and keep things efficient (I want non-stressed HP, low EGT + backpressure again because of ceramic lined exhaust ports

Anyone see any problem with the above exhaust plan? From what I understand, the 930 headers won't fit for me and my 964 engine and typically have same sized primary tubes as my stock 964 ones anyways...

Intake:
- deleting AFM flapper box with switch to MAP based tuning with VEMS
- likely going to be non-intercooled at least initially while I monitor IAT's and slowly add in boost;mind you I want to keep the smooth speedster tail look and this car will be fed E85 exclusively...
- basic intercooler piping kit to string it all together
- if I do find the need to do an intercooler, I see myself doing a small air:water cooler and putting an ice-bin in the speedster shelf area where the back seats used to be.

Misc.: (this is honestly the hardest part!)
- oil feel and drain *can I use 930 stuff? Does my 964 engine have the same oil feed provisions? Will a engine case drain plug style turbo drain work for me?*
- is there anything I'm missing or glazing over that I need to be reminded of?

Thanks in advance and pictures of FrankenPorsche to come soon.

A couple of pics for those interested + the latest dilemma...

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So I ordered a flange from Bisimoto described on their website as the turbine flange for 930's and that it's also the same as the 964 cat flange (perfect! that's what I was looking for) and this is what I received in the mail; definitely not what I was looking for. To make things worse, after checking back on the website on Bisimoto to make sure I infact ordered the right flange, I find out its gone from the website! I contact them and they say "Yeah, we're getting away from sales of stuff like this but we'll get this taken care of." That was a month ago so I'm done holding my breath and Bisimoto can bite it...

Anywho... here's what I received vs. the gasket I need to match a flange to to make my J-pipe.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1539651770.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1539651770.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1539651770.jpg


Anyone know where I can get such a flange?
The last bit I need to figure out is the oil feed/drain; is it the same for the 3.6 motors? Can I just buy the kit from Patrick Motorsports?

Modern turbos spool so fast that I'd lean towards a T4 flange. Later on, if you decide to turn it into a beast of a turbo engine, you won't be choked.

I don't think you have to worry about over powering the engine, they are quite robust from my understanding. I know the 3.2's in stock form can take just about anything you throw at them.

Hi, I think you contacted us about this project via PM/IM/similar?

We have those catalytic converter flanges in stainless steel.

We make similar low-boost turbo systems for the 964, and they spool very early and linearly. 335whp/320wtq at low boost on 91-octane with VERY conservative timing and fueling.
We always use stand-alone engine management, usually AEM Infinity, and always intercool them. We have fabricated air:water intercooler systems for the 964/993 and can make one for you, too.

Put it together without the metal gasket.That's what someone at Durabilt told me to do once so I tried it and it worked fine.
The steel and cast iron surfaces are all machined perfectly flat so there were no exhaust leaks. Or I couldn't hear any.

Maybe for the turbine outlet, but not for the turbine inlet.

He wants to build a side-mount turbo system for his 964 ala Ruf RCT/Evo, mounting it where the catalytic converter was. The catalyst flange is unique, similar but not the same as the turbine outlet flange.

I saw a video of how quickly your S300 hits and that's given a smaller displacement and compression to boot. I think GT45 could be fun :D if they fit under the car without dragging like a set of hillbilly-truck-nuts

What is the farthest anyone has pushed a N/A-T conversion that you all have witnessed? Especially on the torque end...

Is 500hp/450tq (so ~425WHP) possible on stock rotating assembly? I don't think detonation will be my limiting factor with E85. Will keep the stock redline/revlimit of 6500/7000 due to rods bolts and valvetrain.

Thanks for the reply Chris. How much are those flanges as I couldn't locate on the website (I'm guessing they're a custom order item?). I'm also interested in the Garrett oil feed kit and a fuel pump upgrade.

What kind of power can I expect if 91 weren't a limitation? I have 93 available here and even still, I'll be using E85 as it's readily available too and I have 80lb injectors already in my posession. Just awaiting VEMS ecu to install and start plumbing everything.

What size air:water core can I expect to fit under a stock lid? My mind imagined one of these tube/canister style ones: Barrel Water to Air Intercoolers in-line in charge pipe just before entering throttle body and this shape looks easy to hide/mount.

EDIT: I'm going to need a clutch with my most recent lofty goals :D
What's something that will hold a boat load of power but isn't an on/off button? I don't mind a heavy pressure plate/pedal feel but don't want a lightweight flywheel or an on/off disc compound or shape. Something that's easier to modulate and will hold up longevity wise (so maybe kevlar faced?) but that clamps down when I drop the hammer. Does my car being a Carrera 4 vs a C2 G50 make things any different?



I'll be using the gasket pictured to start with and I have issues with blow-out I'll just switch to a copper RTV chemical gasket.

That much turbocharger on a high compression 3.6L doesn't calculate.

<400whp
Start looking at your net cylinder pressures when you're boosting it that much, the cylinders split.

$75 for 1/2in SS flange
We have the oil lines and pump adapters in stock as well.
You may get lucky and gravity drain the turbo's oil, but we use an electric scavenge pump ($400) or an OEM gear pump driven off the cam like factory (requires modifying the cam).

The jump to 93-oct isn't that big a difference that you'll get a lot more performance potential.
e85, on the other hand, usually allows you to run a lot more timing, which is where your gains will happen.
80# injectors are alright for low boost on e85. If you end up reducing CR and running more boost, those are much too small.

Those cores aren't efficient, BTDT.
Most everything off that website is Walmart quality. Someone put a lot of time, effort, and money into building a good-looking 993 Speedster -- don't cheapen the car by using junk components.
Use Garrett air:water IC cores, and as much high-efficiency aluminum radiator as you can fit on your car. It'll be more than enough for your current power level, and when you get bored and rebiuld the top-end with lower CR because you want more performance (or because you ran too much timing/boost and hurt the high CR engine), the same cooler will support over 550whp.

A standard 996T clutch will hold what you're doing and is completely streetable, just fine in stop-and-go traffic.

What a mess of a quote reply, I apologize ahead of time :D
Thanks for the quick replies. I'll give you a call when I'm at the shop tomorrow post-lunch and place the order.

The one last thing that came to mind that I hadn't really at all thought about vacuum related stuff, EVAP, PCV, etc. What are most doing? Vacuum block + check valves? Catch can?

That will be easiest.

If you plumb it correctly, a catch can is unnecessary.
The rest of it -- vacuum line routing, where to install check valves, what can be deleted, etc. -- that's part of the fun of DIY. Study what the factory did on the 964 Turbo and 993 Turbo, that will help you.

It seems as though the second distributor really complicates fitment... it’s a damn tight spot to squeeze that charge pipe through. Pretty much dictated every angle and placement. Essentially it’s the same placement as a 930 but the heater boxes are different/more in the way. To clear the heater boxes, and not hang low AF, this made for a situation where mandrel bent tubing wasn’t going to work (I need tighter bend radius than the pipe diameter itself and I need changing bend radius+direction as the up pipe unfolds towards factory header collector) and I kinda sorta don’t want to waste a bunch of $$ on a stainless steel mandrel bent mistake...

So I grabbed up 10ft of 3” mild and starting mocking up my idea. I also have been curious on the pie cut method and could use some welding+fitment practice before the real deal with expensive materials. Using a gt45 bs turbo for mock-up (it’s hilariously large so it’s worse case scenario; no matter what turbo I pick... it’ll fit I’m fairly certain)


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1540775282.jpg
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I’d say 75% this could be recreated with mandrels that the last 10-25% is going to be tight. The silver lining is I can run the wastegate path diverging right from the tight bend so it’ll be a straight path flowing out the gate; should be excellent control-wise.

------ SMALL UPDATE ------

* -10AN oil drain crafted. Ditched the straight drain plug fitting and 90 degree swivel for something more compact that wouldn't interfere with heater box. Went with a M20x1.50 -10AN banjo from Mishimoto and am pretty happy with how tightly it fits to the engine. Not a whole lot of drop from turbo though... I'm expecting smoke/drips to be honest but only time will tell.

* Oil feed from TurboKraft came in but it turns out I ordered the wrong thing for these 3.6 motors. My sender is different and has switch built in (dual sender). Currently I have the oil line being ran off where the oil temp sensor was because it was also M14x1.50 and I'm only checking for leaks and won't be driving so if my temp sensor is OL til I get the right adapter, I really don't mind.

* Finished up-pipe and added wastegate flanges for 44mm wastegate. Coated in DEI black.

* Test fired to check for exhaust leaks and oil leaks. So far so good.... took a little video. Vehicle already slightly warm and turbo has had oil through it so don't hit me with the "cold revs" grief :P

https://youtu.be/hWN4iLib-rk

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1542496433.jpg
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Yes my engine is dirty...
Yes I suck at welding...
Neither affects WHP so I'm gonna carry on until it's time for full-on rebuild.

Hi,

That oil feed line is made for Turbo engines which usually have a M18/M14 adapter threaded into the crankcase where your engine has a M18 plug.

That adapter is a Genuine Porsche item and we have it in stock as well (~$40). Without it, you will not be able to use the spring & ball check valve parts sent with the kit.

Then again, if your drain back to the case is successful and oil doesn't ever back up, you won't need the check valve.