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-   -   Building a (semi) reliable 1xxxhp 3.3+ (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/1043616-building-semi-reliable-1xxxhp-3-3-a.html)

Ollies930 10-26-2019 03:37 PM

Building a (semi) reliable 1xxxhp 3.3+
 
As the title says, I am trying to build a reliable 1100-1200rwhp air cooled turbo, based on an early 3.3. And I know that a lot of people on here probably think that I am a complete idiot and that I have no idea what I am talking about. For those I would like to remind you that it has already been done by Eddie Bello to the tune of 1340rwhp. Now Eddie Bello has spent a lot of time developing his engine, but he was kind enough to share some specifics with me to get me going in the right direction.
I have been collecting parts for this engine for years and am finally out of other projects so I can focus on this. My biggest problem currently is procrastination and I thought that if I post my build on this forum, enough people will light a fire under my ass to keep me going until it is finished.
The parts list so far:
1978 3.3 block
block surfaced until stud holes were flush with cylinder surface
shuffle pins and windage relief by Ollies
modified 930 oil pump
GT3 crankshaft with center oiling modification
Custom ductile Iron cylinders by JB Racing
3.0 Carrillo rods
Custom Wiseco Pistons
HM Elliott coated main bearings
Clevite coated rod bearings
Pictures and rest of parts to follow soon.

Oliver

Rawknees'Turbo 10-26-2019 05:58 PM

Man, can't wait to see and read all about it! I absolutely love the monster horsepower builds (although I rarely see anything about them, other than the insane dyno pulls and warp speed track runs on video).

Maybe Gerry will see this and chime in on how he got to 1100+ with his lunatic machine?!

And you probably already know this, but GT Racing/Guard/Matt Monson has a differential that is up to the task (Bello used one of them, at some point).

clutch-monkey 10-26-2019 07:43 PM

why chasing that particular power figure? not being negative, just love to see what people use their cars for :) runway/standing mile?

as to your question i've always wondered if anyone runs watercooled turbos on their 930's- might be a bit of extra effort making a coolant reservoir and small cooler etc but could be helpful for longevity?

Ollies930 10-26-2019 09:41 PM

This will be for 1/2 mile and 1 mile runs. As for my horsepower goal, I know what has been accomplished by the best in this particular venue and if you account for smaller displacement and 5-10% less power per displacement, that is where I should end up.

boosted79 10-27-2019 05:41 AM

What is your definition of (semi) reliable?

Ollies930 10-27-2019 11:38 AM

My definition is: something that has as much safety margin built in as possible, other than limiting boost. An engine that will require a minimum of maintenance under normal (street) running conditions and has every part designed to handle the extra load of 35lb boost when needed.

GJF 10-27-2019 02:50 PM

I've known Eddie for a long time, I worked on his first SC that started his journey (he doesn't fabricate, he is a tuner.) He pretty much has tried just about everything you could think of, to that SC. He is very specific about his tuning (he sold the car and pretty much is into his motorcycles).

You have a great foundation. That alone will keep the bottom end together. The motor will hold together fine, it's the tune that will be your deciding factor. Are you going ITB or single TB?
Twins for sure. (2) 57mm starts you at 1100HP.
Make sure you don't cut corner's on the heads, 42mm exhaust ports minimum and ARP studs.

totle 10-27-2019 04:20 PM

Great hp goal. Looking forward to follow your build

Ollies930 10-27-2019 04:32 PM

Hi GJF,
thanks for your input. Your build actually made me decide on the JB Racing cylinders.
I am not a big fan of ITBs, especially on a street/drag setup. This will be a single TB of 85 or 90mm diameter.
It will definitely be a twin turbo setup, currently I am leaning towards the Gen 2 GTX3576s, will handle the power and have fast spool, but that is still a ways down the road.
The heads will start at 43/39 based on Eddie's recommendation. He told me that he did not like the way the engine responded with bigger ports, too lazy for him. Which is probably how he managed to get well over 1000ftlbs of torque around 5500rpm.
As for studs, I found a set of ARP studs, that are a bit longer than the factory studs and have more threads on the case side for more engagement, as I am planning on torquing them to 50ftlbs. Since I do not know for certain what material the cases are made of, I assumed AL356 (weak alloy) and doing the math based on that I will be safe with the longer studs and Helicoils, so that the studs will not pull out of the cases.

Ollies930 10-27-2019 05:35 PM

Thanks Trond.
Here are a few pictures to show some of the modifications that I think will help this engine survive high boost.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1572222677.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1572222677.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1572222677.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1572222677.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1572222677.jpg

Ollies930 10-27-2019 05:42 PM

First picture shows flat surface for cylinders including surface surrounding stud holes.
Second pic close up of Ollies boattailing
Third is cylinder with wide sealing surface encompassing stud holes.
Fourth and fifth stud holes full length from sealing surface to cylinder base.

Ollies930 10-27-2019 05:44 PM

BTW, I goofed on the cylinder description, they are in fact steel and not ductile iron.

GJF 10-27-2019 06:07 PM

If you have 930 heads, the ports are too small. I run Carrera heads and have spent plenty of time working the bowls. Problem with opening them up on the intake, it kills low speed velocity. That being said, If your heads are 930ís then open them up to Carrera ports and stop. If you have a set of Carrera heads, blend and clean them up, put a set of custom valves and seats and let them rip.

Cajundaddy 10-27-2019 06:28 PM

Wrap it in a water jacket and double reliability. The temps generated with a 3.3L at 1200hp would be pretty intense.

GJF 10-27-2019 06:44 PM

Oil is typically 10 degree hotter than water. I run a 180 degree thermostat and usually see 185-190 temps at all times When up to temp. I don’t see run away temps nor do I see IAT’s over 100F... EVER! Even here in South Florida during our 90F+ weather. Some say it helps ball bearing turbos, but I can’t see 5-10 degree helping that much. I’ve never lost a turbo to heat damage......

Mike Billings 10-27-2019 09:53 PM

With that goal I'd be looking at Xtreme cylinder heads.

clutch-monkey 10-28-2019 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy (Post 10638126)
Wrap it in a water jacket and double reliability. The temps generated with a 3.3L at 1200hp would be pretty intense.

not quite, but i did see someone a while back have a water nozzle on intercooler and one facing into the engine fan, to keep temps stable

Porsche 935 10-28-2019 05:52 AM

How much did you machine off the block and how did you make up for the machining ? Special cylinders or different rods?

boosted79 10-28-2019 06:02 AM

With twin turbos how about a dual TB setup, a wide band for each bank and separate fuel trim for each bank. I have looked at doing this with a modified 3.2 intake. Ferrari does it on their current twin turbo V8's. If you're just going to run it WFO all the time then probably not worth it.

Porsche 935 10-28-2019 06:50 AM

Mike at turbo performance did twin throttle body's years ago. Back in the 90's. Twin sequential set up. Made lots of power.


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