Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Ollies930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 325
Here you go, direct from the 2016 Borg Warner catalog.


Old 12-18-2019, 07:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #41 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 307
Thanks!

If this is re-branded as "RAptor K27RS" it is in fact a very small turbo. I dont think it is, I believe this is the core housings used, diameters remained, but less blade count from Evergreen. Lets see...

The main specs to notice from BW above is:
55mm compressor inducer
59mm turbine exducer
11 cm2 housing

Those specs are comparable with a small GT2871 on compressor (54mm) and GTX30/G30 turbo 9 or 10 blade turbine (55mm)
The GTX30 has 58mm compressor inducer and 10 blades 55mm turbine exducer - G30 series has 9 blades.
The BW 59mm 12 blade compare to a 55mm 10 or 9 blade turbine in back-pressure
So the GTX30 is bigger on the compressor, and the above BW K27 compare to a GTX2871 on the compressor.

That should easily equal 1 bar much earlier than 3000rpm, no problem BUT would have a lot of back-pressure on our 930 air cooled CIS engines (a lot of heat).

Way way smaller than a stock K27 7006

And btw, nice picure of a pelican 930 on the BW catalog marketing, someone should be the proud owner here on this forum :-)

However, Chris @ Turbocraft mentioned that they source it from Evergreen instead and it is given a different 9 blade wheel. I would guess that would be the 59mm turbine wheel that may have the 3 blades removed, the back-pressure would drop and spool-up a little later, but would fit the aircooled engine better with less heat. It would then fall in between the GTX30 and GTX35 on the turbine side as a comparison, but still be small as GT28/G25 on the compressor with its 55mm inducer. Only guessing here, but it would be damn difficult to go any bigger internally (billet or not) than 55mm on the compressor due to the restricted 60mm compressor outer hose connection that has to fit stock OEM piping.

Anyway, who can provide the specs of the Evergreen version with billet compresor wheel and 9 blade turbine version? That is compressor #blades inducer/exducer and Turbine #blades inducer/exducer. I am in Europe, and Evergreen does not have it on the Web, called them but closed by phone here locally in the morning in Europe. Properly, the name "Raptor K27 RS" is coming from this rebuild from Evergreen.
Thanks :-)
Old 12-18-2019, 10:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #42 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TurboKraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,629
Photos -- let the wild speculation and keyboard evaluation begin...





Here's the summary:
* it is more responsive than a -7200 -- spools up a little quicker, is more lively, more linear, almost as good as a Garrett GT35R
* it has more airflow capability than the CIS injection has fuel delivery capability -- we know, we've used these on both CIS and EFI engines

It's a really good, high performance upgrade when rebuilding your K27 turbocharger.
I hope Charlie (Evergreen) sells a ton more of them.
__________________
Chris Carroll
TurboKraft, Inc.
Tel. 480.969.0911
email: info@turbokraft.com
http://www.facebook.com/TurboKraft - http://www.instagram.com/TurboKraft
Old 12-18-2019, 11:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #43 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 307
as we do gas stand turbine testing, and dyno pulling turbos each day we never dyno pull or recommend units without data and actual specs. Hence the interest of data behind the name

Thanks for the pictures - can you list the specs instead, lets leave out the speculation part

Looks like:
55mm compressor 7 blade
59mm turbine 9 blade
11 cm2 housing
Old 12-19-2019, 12:15 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #44 (permalink)
Registered User
 
911tracker85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Park Hills, KY
Posts: 2,232
Quote:
The K27RS works best for the 350whp-425whp CIS builds.
that is my target.
__________________
Bob Cox
84 928S, Ruby Red linen/brown interior - preferred DD
87 924S resurrect and gut and another track car...
86 944 turbo my new DE/track car.
78 930 clone project car.
Old 12-19-2019, 06:04 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #45 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,043
Garage
Why would Charlie hand over his hard work so it could be copied by others? I sure will not. It's his info to give if he chooses. We have little mods here and there that are tweaked to perform best in specific power ranges and applications. Many of our systems go on race cars, none of those details are public information.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 12-19-2019, 06:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #46 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
TurboKraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Why would Charlie hand over his hard work so it could be copied by others? I sure will not. It's his info to give if he chooses.
+1

Call Alois and ask for the measurements and specs on his turbochargers, then enjoy the sound of the dial tone when he hangs up.

Charlie is very generous, but I wouldn't fault him one bit if he told you to kick rocks.

I don't ask him specifics like that, and here's why:
I respect that he's a world-class expert turbocharger builder (2nd generation), and I respect his time and effort he's invested into figuring out a better solution.
In 20 years of working with him, I know I can trust him when he says, "This is going to out-perform the setup we did last time." It does. Without fail.
We test it, it works, we trial run it past a few trusted customers and get their feedback, and then we offer it to all.
So having specific measurements or part numbers is just unnecessary information.


Let's not pretend that inducer and exducer dimensions, and turbine A/R, or compressor outlet I.D. are the only determinants in turbocharger performance. There's so much more to it than that.
__________________
Chris Carroll
TurboKraft, Inc.
Tel. 480.969.0911
email: info@turbokraft.com
http://www.facebook.com/TurboKraft - http://www.instagram.com/TurboKraft
Old 12-19-2019, 10:26 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #47 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,857
Well said TurboKraft. This turbo sounds like a terrific upgrade, one that I may consider now after following this thread. I don’t need to know any of the specifics with how it’s built. If it’s got your approval and RarlyL8’s approval, that’s enough for me.
Old 12-19-2019, 04:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #48 (permalink)
Registered User
 
speednme1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,792
This is how mine came back from Charlie’s...Excellent!!
__________________
Rey....77 930 "the Mistress"
Old 12-19-2019, 04:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #49 (permalink)
Turbo Powered Snow Blower
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA .... Galveston, TX
Posts: 3,517
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Euro View Post
Since I'm running the 7006 frame with no knowledge of past upgrades I would be interested in comments on this also.



Rarlyl8 ....1 bar before 3000 rpm what gear?

Wow mine happens so fast I can't see it but I think I hit .6 at 4500 in first and maybe 1 bar in 2nd. Plenty fast for an old man.


I have CIS, GT35R Twin Scroll, RarlyL8 headers with dual waste gates, Turbo Kraft long neck inter cooler and Elgin Sport Grind Cams.
From a stop light I hit 1.0 bar by the other side of an intersection and the 315 tires start spinning. It happens so quick I only have time to shift.
It’s plenty of power for a street car.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Derrick
Old 12-19-2019, 08:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #50 (permalink)
Old car guy.....
 
Hot Euro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 685
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1979-930 View Post
I have CIS, GT35R Twin Scroll, RarlyL8 headers with dual waste gates, Turbo Kraft long neck inter cooler and Elgin Sport Grind Cams.
From a stop light I hit 1.0 bar by the other side of an intersection and the 315 tires start spinning. It happens so quick I only have time to shift.
It’s plenty of power for a street car.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"By the other side of the intersection" you are probably hitting 6000 rpm.
I think I need new tires because mine are spinning long before that. Yee..haw...
__________________
Steve
1981 SC Steel Widebody, DP Lid, 930/51 to 3.2l, K27 7006 Turbo, DOD, P&P Twin Plug heads, Twinfire Ignition, Ruf Intercooler, Powerhaus headers, Zork, CIS Euro FD, 009 injectors, 044 pump, BLwur, 930 4 sp LSD, Mocal 44 w/fan, LM2, Brembo, Retroair, Euromeisters
2003 BMW Z4 Daily Driver & Autocross car.
Old 12-20-2019, 04:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #51 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TurboKraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1979-930 View Post
I have CIS, GT35R Twin Scroll, RarlyL8 headers with dual waste gates, Turbo Kraft long neck inter cooler and Elgin Sport Grind Cams.
From a stop light I hit 1.0 bar by the other side of an intersection and the 315 tires start spinning. It happens so quick I only have time to shift.
It’s plenty of power for a street car.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Euro View Post
"By the other side of the intersection" you are probably hitting 6000 rpm.
I think I need new tires because mine are spinning long before that. Yee..haw...
__________________
Chris Carroll
TurboKraft, Inc.
Tel. 480.969.0911
email: info@turbokraft.com
http://www.facebook.com/TurboKraft - http://www.instagram.com/TurboKraft
Old 12-20-2019, 09:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #52 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
+1

Call Alois and ask for the measurements and specs on his turbochargers, then enjoy the sound of the dial tone when he hangs up.

Charlie is very generous, but I wouldn't fault him one bit if he told you to kick rocks.

I don't ask him specifics like that, and here's why:
I respect that he's a world-class expert turbocharger builder (2nd generation), and I respect his time and effort he's invested into figuring out a better solution.
In 20 years of working with him, I know I can trust him when he says, "This is going to out-perform the setup we did last time." It does. Without fail.
We test it, it works, we trial run it past a few trusted customers and get their feedback, and then we offer it to all.
So having specific measurements or part numbers is just unnecessary information.


Let's not pretend that inducer and exducer dimensions, and turbine A/R, or compressor outlet I.D. are the only determinants in turbocharger performance. There's so much more to it than that.
Wow, lets just say I dont share same view that wheel diameters in a turbo is just unnecessary information

Pelican is knowledge sharing. If not outsourcing to a shop, 930 upgrade would have turbo wheel diameters just as important as crank, valve, piston, wg, header diameter specs for those forum members interested

Wheel specs are available to everyone with interest and a set of eyes. no big drama
Old 12-20-2019, 09:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #53 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 1,125
Garage
Derrick,

Do you remember what you set your cams to? On the low side, middle or high side of the value.

Are these 1.8mm-2.0mm?

Rahl
Old 12-20-2019, 10:09 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #54 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: SAvoa area / Finland
Posts: 33
Garage
Hi, has someone experinece of this type unit?
Is it wort of making the modified connections and test

I bought it few ýears ago as new and later thought it might be too small for 3.3 engine on top end and risk of too high back pressure, has sit on shelf since, give your opinnions of it

Iwas thinking that as beeng balla bearing it would spool better, but has not notice that precicion is used in 930 at least here in forum

thx
pekka


__________________
-72 2.4S targa original Viper green now indishred since -78, -70 2,3 ST replica with correct engine and parts Gulf Blue, -88 930 Turbo indishred, -58 tractor Super, waiting for resto: -76 2,7S targa US import, -74 3,0 Coupe in bad shape, -71 T targa gonda green, -70 T targa White
Old 12-23-2019, 08:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #55 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 307
Merry Christmas

Here is a few info when comparing turbo chargers between families and brands

- Ball bearings do not make much of a difference for spool-up

- Less blade count on turbine wheel increase flow but will spool up later. It is wrong to think weight beats restriction. Diameter has to go down instead, only then less weight from removed blades is a benefit to spool-up.

- Billet compressor wheels makes no different to flow. It adds durability and quick flexibility in production. Billet exhaust wheels dont exist.

- More full blades on compressor decrease flow, but increase spool-up, i.e a 7 + 7 (full vs half) blade has less restriction and will flow more than 14 full blade. 14 full blade will spool quicker

- Compressor inducer and dept is the single biggest factor to cold air flow potential

- Compressor exducer diameter is the biggest factor for pressure ratio (possible boost levels)

- Turbine exducer diameter is the biggest factor to backpressor and exhaust flow

- Turbine inducer is not really that important, and now days tend to get really close to exducer diameter. Has an impact on spool-up

- Compressor- and turbine housing areas are the last to be selected after wheels are set.

- Twin scroll turbine housing setup will beat bearings, wheels and area to a long extend when it comes to spool-up

To compare a Presion, Garrett, BorgWarner, a rebranded “Raptor RS” OEM housing with other wheels, from dyno logs is really only possible when listing some of the basic information about the turbo as so many other engine- and individual factors are in play when testimonies from dyno results are shared



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Old 12-25-2019, 04:09 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #56 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:30 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.