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Geting to most out of fuelsystem

I have a 964 turbo -91

I have change the front pump to 044

Now i am thinking of changing the rear one to 044 and new relays and cables.
Is the lines enough?

I have the frankencis controlling the lambda valve and car running so much better at all points but still little to leen on top,

So I want to get out everything I can out of this system. I do not want EFI

Old 06-30-2020, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spjuvern View Post
So I want to get out everything I can out of this system. I do not want EFI
Good luck.I very much doubt 2 044s will make any difference - because I think it's the shape of the fueling curve rather than system capacity that causes the lean issue.

I made 370 wheel HP on CIS with a single 044. Yup, lean up top. Pump was keeping up fine.

About the only easy way to fatten up the top end I know of is to use the RPM solenoid to delay boost enrichment, re-tune the WUR and hope enrichment lasts until redline/there's enough of it in the right place/not too much everywhere else.

This just seemed too Rube Goldberg for too little control to me. Oh, and I think an adjustable WUR is a given for that, to have any hope of compensating for boost enrichment getting up. Get ready to compromise..

If that doesn't do it for you, then it gets awkward. You might be able to get the fuel head reworked to go fatter at the top (although you mostly hear of them being increased across the entire range). Which is handing over significant amount of money - and an expensive part - entirely on faith. There's relatively few people I'd trust to do that.

Digital WUR seemed hopeful for a while - but just ended up being a disappointment/ripoff.

There was some very interesting work done with using an (eg) Splitsecond controller to manage a FV to alter control pressure. Idea built on by the FrankenCIS guys, who seem to be doing very interesting things. That would probably be the best route - but I'd already thrown my hands in the air and bought a Motec by then.

Accurate/arbitrary spark control and eliminating the barn door is worth a astonishing amount of mid-range response (to say nothing of sequential injection with an injector designed in the last decade).
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Last edited by spuggy; 06-30-2020 at 04:49 PM.. Reason: Added adjustable WUR comment
Old 06-30-2020, 04:45 PM
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What are our power goals?
What boost level?
FrankenCIS should be able to control the off-boost pressures adequately, you simply need more fuel. The -145 FD in stock form can only support ~350whp. Modified version can support 400+whp. Drivability is not affected when using an adjustable WUR, it should also be fine with FrankenCIS. We do this on a regular basis using the modified FD combined with adjustable WUR.
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Old 06-30-2020, 06:43 PM
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I had all the fuel I wanted with my IAC-1 setup. Two 044 did not help nor did raising system pressure.
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Old 06-30-2020, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spuggy View Post
About the only easy way to fatten up the top end I know of is to use the RPM solenoid to delay boost enrichment, re-tune the WUR and hope enrichment lasts until redline/there's enough of it in the right place/not too much everywhere else.

This just seemed too Rube Goldberg for too little control to me. Oh, and I think an adjustable WUR is a given for that, to have any hope of compensating for boost enrichment getting up. Get ready to compromise.....

Digital WUR seemed hopeful for a while - but just ended up being a disappointment/ripoff.
The FrankenCIS does all that for you and its absolutely not rube Goldberg. That's exactly the description I applied to the traditional adjustable WUR+rpm switch.

The OP should be able to adjust the VE table and add more fuel up top until you get to the max the fuel system can deliver. Possibly you've hit that max, idk. But I don't think system pressure, assuming you're at spec, is going to cause low fuel delivery.
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'86 no-sunroof 930 coupe: Emissions removed, FrankenCIS controlling eWUR, lambda, COP ignition. Tial f46P 1.0 bar spring, SC cams, K-27/29, lightweight clutch, TK Longneck intercooler, RarlyL8 headers and dual-outlet hooligan
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Old 07-01-2020, 10:33 AM
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Here is some more information about my car,

Ported heads and intake manifold
Something better than sc cams

I have mounted One adjustable WUR Instead of the frankencis unit, that works better for me.

But use the frankencis to manage the frequency valve, boostcontroler and afr logg

I really like how I could take away a lot of fuel in the low/middle range,

But I donít like that I had to lower the boost from 1.1 to 0.8bar at 5000 and up
Because of afr goes leen


I was thinking that a original 979 pump gives 167 L/H and a 044 gives 220L/H
Doesnít that affect?
How restrictive are the backvalves and lines or are it all down to the fuelhead cant give more?

I have something like 2.2-2.3 CP in that area were I want more fuel.
Were is the limit?
Old 07-01-2020, 01:53 PM
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I have a 930 lightly modified engine with SC cams and all new internals, only thing was reused were the case and heads. currently using adjustable WUR from Rarelyl8, modified Black fuel head and Rarelyl8 headers with hooligan muffler. There is power everywhere along the band and when boosts comes in from GT35 turbo its a new car! Exciting and Thrilling! Its all in the tuning, timing, and AFR.
Im new to this as my other car is a BMW M5 producing almost 900rwh and tuning is done with a laptop but I think the principals are the same.
Old 07-01-2020, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdelatour View Post
I have a 930 lightly modified engine with SC cams and all new internals, only thing was reused were the case and heads. currently using adjustable WUR from Rarelyl8, modified Black fuel head and Rarelyl8 headers with hooligan muffler. There is power everywhere along the band and when boosts comes in from GT35 turbo its a new car! Exciting and Thrilling! Its all in the tuning, timing, and AFR.
Im new to this as my other car is a BMW M5 producing almost 900rwh and tuning is done with a laptop but I think the principals are the same.
i have many years of experience with tuning turbo cars,
with all kind of stand alone ECUs
thats why i am very accurate when tuning this car,
i like to do it as good as possible and at the max i can get out of the fuelhead.
Old 07-01-2020, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spjuvern View Post
Here is some more information about my car,

Ported heads and intake manifold
Something better than sc cams

I have mounted One adjustable WUR Instead of the frankencis unit, that works better for me.

But use the frankencis to manage the frequency valve, boostcontroler and afr logg

I really like how I could take away a lot of fuel in the low/middle range,

But I donít like that I had to lower the boost from 1.1 to 0.8bar at 5000 and up
Because of afr goes leen


I was thinking that a original 979 pump gives 167 L/H and a 044 gives 220L/H
Doesnít that affect?
How restrictive are the backvalves and lines or are it all down to the fuelhead cant give more?

I have something like 2.2-2.3 CP in that area were I want more fuel.
Were is the limit?
Which boost controller?
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'86 no-sunroof 930 coupe: Emissions removed, FrankenCIS controlling eWUR, lambda, COP ignition. Tial f46P 1.0 bar spring, SC cams, K-27/29, lightweight clutch, TK Longneck intercooler, RarlyL8 headers and dual-outlet hooligan
'14 Jaguar XK-R: Bullet proof windscreen, rotating number plates (valid all European countries), martini mixer, whatever you do don't press this red button!
Old 07-02-2020, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by flightlead404 View Post
Which boost controller?
i use the microsquirt and tunerstudio to control the boost
Old 07-02-2020, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spjuvern View Post
i use the microsquirt and tunerstudio to control the boost
I meant, which valve? 3-port or 4-port?

I assume you have a TPS then?
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'86 no-sunroof 930 coupe: Emissions removed, FrankenCIS controlling eWUR, lambda, COP ignition. Tial f46P 1.0 bar spring, SC cams, K-27/29, lightweight clutch, TK Longneck intercooler, RarlyL8 headers and dual-outlet hooligan
'14 Jaguar XK-R: Bullet proof windscreen, rotating number plates (valid all European countries), martini mixer, whatever you do don't press this red button!
Old 07-03-2020, 06:34 AM
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Have your fuel head ported. Mine is ported and have no issues with fuel all the way to redline. Factory pumps if that matters at all and use an adjustable WUR.

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Old 07-03-2020, 11:53 AM
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