Buyer beware for Sachs 930 clutches from Europe

[smurfbus]

So I bought the strongest clutch kit (Sachs Performance 574PP) for our engines from https://www.zweimassenschwungrad.com/ which is one of several onlineshops with same inventory and mostly sells clutches. I even put a disclaimer on the purchase info field 'cancel this order if not on stock' because the online shop said its on stock. Beforehand he had told me that his 999574.999615 kit comes without TB so I ordered a genuine Sachs TB elsewhere for 245eur.

Some of his sites:
https://www.ccc-motorsport.de/shop/903/877/zf-sachs-performance-race-sport-kupplung-sportkupplung-clutch-parts-act-exedy-f1/kupplungsauswahl-nach-fahrzeugen/porsche2012-06-15-18-51-08_/911-1-serie-g-modell-bj-01-1963-11-1990/3-0-turbo-191kw-260ps-930-52-bj-01-1975-12-1977/kupplung-verst%C3%A4rkt-sportkupplung-porsche-911-3-0-turbo-organische-sport-kupplung-sachs-performance-999574-999615-detail

https://www.zweimassenschwungrad.com/903/877/porsche2012-06-15-18-51-08_/911-1-serie-g-modell-bj-01-1963-11-1990/3-0-turbo-191kw-260ps-930-52-bj-01-1975-12-1977/kupplung-verst%C3%A4rkt-sportkupplung-porsche-911-3-0-turbo-organische-sport-kupplung-sachs-performance-999574-999615-detail

https://www.volante-bimasa.es/877/porsche2012-06-15-18-51-08_/911-1-series,-g-model-ano-01-1963-11-1990/3-0-turbo-191kw-260ps-930-52-bj-01-1975-12-1977

all search results for https://www.google.com/search?q=999574.999615 I think belong to the same person.



After some time I asked whats going on and the seller replyed Sachs does not have them right now but hes working on it.

Then he shipped my order and I got a different weaker 88 3082 999 594 clutch PP with a TB and a 615 disk that does not even work with the 594. He said 88 3082 999 594+TB(release bearing)=88 3089 999 574 which is bull****.

I tried to make him switch the 594 for the correct 574 which he refused. So I had to contact paypal resolution center. He got some tech from Sachs Performance who agreed with him and when I emailed that person if Sachs Performance would pay for my expences when I have the wrong parts installed and removed for correct parts, a more knowledgeable tech cut in and answered with the correct info. I then forwarded the correct info to the seller and paypal BUT paypal desided to favor the seller because he did not agree!!!!

So now I have two extra TBs and wrong PP. Pissed beyond...

Below is a copy paste of the email from the more knowledgeable Sachs tech and correct info for these clutches:

************************************************** ************

I answer to your mail you sent to xxx(my remark: the other tech, I deleted from this post).

He was wrong in his answer to Jens Bula (my remark: the online shop owner).



The pressure plate with the number 88 3089 999 574 is the strong type of this two plates. This clutch compared with clutch 88 3082 999 594 is having a different adjustment dimension. Therefore you have to use a clutch disc who starts with the numbers 88 186… for this pressure plate.

That’s the reason why there is a note in the description for the pressure plate. See the following picture.

(my remark: pic had 615 with text only for 574)

The part number 88 3082 999 594 is the pressure plate with a lower clamp load. You have to use this clutch with the Sachs clutch disc 1861 568 331 .


The reason why we have two different clutches in our program is, that the original Sachs PP 3082 073 131 is not available anymore.


So if your car has no performance increase, you have to use the combination 88 3082 999 594 / 1861 568 331 .

If your car has a performance increase, you have to use the combination 88 3083 999 574 / 88 186. … .


I hope I could clarify the different between this to numbers. If you have further questions, please feel free to ask.

[reclino]

That blows.

[flightlead404]

IDK how it works in your jurisdiction but here in Atlanta I can file a claim for up to $15,000 in magistrates or small claims court. I can do it online for $25 and pay an additional I think $50 for the defendant to be served. I can file a claim up to the max regardless. This forces the defendant to personally show up in court or hire an attorney (for $$ obviously). Requesting a continuance a few times when they've hired an attorney raises their cost considerably. If they don't show I get a default judgement following which I can either sell the judgement to a debt collector (my preference) or show up to their place of business with a bailiff and a truck and basically just take their stuff.

Its been a pretty effective strategy for me the couple times I've used it. I've never gotten to the bailiff part, but someone else here in Atl did a few years ago suing a large national bank. Literally showed up at a branch bank with a bailiff and started taking their computer gear. Bank wrote a check pretty quickly at that point

[908/930]

Try to get Sachs to fix the problem they caused.

[TurboKraft]

That sucks.

[smurfbus]

I will contact Sachs Performance to consider helping me out with this and to consider if they see this online shops ethics something they can approve for a retailer that sells their awesome clutches.

I bought the kit from Germany so it would have to go to some European consumer office and the wait time is horrific (years) with these so I would rather move forward this winter with my slipping clutch.

[quattrorunner]

Dang. Sorry to see
For those over on this side of the world I’d suggest you call Chris at Turbokraft for clutch suggestions. He knows this stuff.

[smurfbus]

Because of the info here from Kraftday and Chris I knew I got the wrong parts. The sad part is that even some shops that sell these are clueless and blame the customer and even after been told the truth by Sachs don't make it right! It says even at the Sachs catalog that 615 is only for the 574 PP !!!

I trusted the seller up until I posted pics of the kit and then saw the part numbers on them.

[smurfbus]

Sachs tech replyed that I need to sort this out with the seller which is not going anywhere because Jens Bula does not reply to emails! IMO Sachs Performance is partly responsible and should advice the seller to make it right (or cut him of the reseller program) because Sachs employer fed the seller the wrong info and that resulted me loosing the paypal dispute!

Jens Bula was forwarded the correct info but he desides hide in cave and keep my money. I can't use any of the parts he shipped because I need to take this to European consumer office or similar and I bet if I used any of the parts it would mean I approved the transaction and the current situation.

[smurfbus]

Better news: Sachs desided to buy back my kit even though the seller plays MIA.

I need to ship the stuff to Sachs and then they will pay me back the amount I payed Bula. So I only lose the return shipping + the extra release bearing I bought from rosepassion because Bula said his kit does not have it (even though it should have it)

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by smurfbus

Better news: Sachs desided to buy back my kit even though the seller plays MIA.

I need to ship the stuff to Sachs and then they will pay me back the amount I payed Bula. So I only lose the return shipping + the extra release bearing I bought from rosepassion because Bula said his kit does not have it (even though it should have it)

Very nice and its great to hear of a large manufacturer standing behind their product!

[1979-930]

I'm glad you got some restitution.
I've had two disputes this year with PayPal, got effed both times, if the seller argues they take their side. I'm 98% done with PayPal unless it's a reputable seller I've done business with.
No more first time sellers. And never anyone that's not in the USA. I'll pay more with someone else first.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by 1979-930

I'm glad you got some restitution.
I've had two disputes this year with PayPal, got effed both times, if the seller argues they take their side. I'm 98% done with PayPal unless it's a reputable seller I've done business with.
No more first time sellers. And never anyone that's not in the USA. I'll pay more with someone else first.

and as a seller the F'd me on an $800 camera. both fleabay and paypal stink.

[mepstein]

Buy with your credit card. Credit card companies protect the customer - you - first.

[stownsen914]

Credit cards aren't fool proof protection either - I got screwed by a sub-standard business who damaged a set of BBS wheels and then became belligerent and abusive when I pointed it out, and my credit card denied my dispute ... but if you buy through Paypal using a credit card it offers two avenues of possible restitution.

[smurfbus]

But if the paypal dispute is lost will the ccc favor the buyer anyway? My paypal is connected to my cc.

[Andy930]

Get a Kennedy clutch if you are making decent power, job done.

[turbobrat930]

Originally Posted by Andy930

Get a Kennedy clutch if you are making decent power, job done.

The Kennedy clutch is an option, but for those that are still running a clutch cable (and not hydraulic), your clutch will be a lot stiffer than factory. The Sachs option keeps the pedal effort like factory. I wish I could go with a twin disc setup, but since I am running a G50/50, the bellhousing has ZERO room for a twin disc... unfortunately

[smurfbus]

Update and question. So after all the hazzle we agreed with Sachs that I only send the PP and they swap it for the correct one and yesterday I opened the box and it was the correct one (should have checked when it came). But the release bearing I had to buy before (because Bula told his kit does not contain one) from rosepassion contained plug wires (should have opened the box when it came)? Lets see how rosepassion handles this. I warned them before ordering on email that their online shop shows ignition wires as 'description' when your choose release bearing.

[panzerfaust]

PayPal sucks… bought a set of wheels. The guy never shipped them and pocketed the money. Paypal refunded me a 7$ measly dollars. Their stated refund policy is criminal..