Electric Air Conditioning

[msgm1]

Needless to say the original A/C in my 87 930 is useless.

Has anyone here tried replacing the oem with electrical air conditioning?

See link below: https://www.classicretrofit.com/en-us/collections/electric-air-conditioning

[icemann427]

I'm not familiar with Classic Retrofit, but I watched the video linked on the site and it seemed to work pretty good. It was about 97* F outside and the vent temperatures were more than satisfactory. Their Gen 2 blower is included in their systems but you should check to see what the CFM is. I could wrong, but it seemed to take a bit of time to cool down the cockpit. Make sure you opt for the two condenser system as that is a necessity in hot weather (I've heard of people even adding a very large condenser below the floor to help in very hot climes, so don't sell short the size or efficiency of condensers needed). You will surely need the upgraded alternator, as the factory alternator will not be able to handle the necessary draw of that system in combination with the rest of the car's needs. Is the total of $5k+/- pricey? I have no idea. Check around for the performance and price of similar offerings.

[Mocker]

msgm1, if you live where temps regularly get above 90F, you should seriously consider the Griffiths setup. Do it once, do it right.

https://griffiths.com/porsche/air-conditioning/911-930/

[msgm1]

Originally Posted by Mocker

msgm1, if you live where temps regularly get above 90F, you should seriously consider the Griffiths setup. Do it once, do it right.

https://griffiths.com/porsche/air-conditioning/911-930/

thx will check it out

[JacobS911]

Do you have all your original equipment AC in the car now? If so, then I would recommend Grifiths there are awesome reviews of their upgrades on 911s on pelican. If you don't have any AC stuff like mine then would recommend the electric. I have it installed on mine as a prior owner ripped out all the original stuff. Works great for me as well as others. People that live in swampy areas or TX complain that it can't keep up. Dryer climates it does better. I'm able to enjoy windows up driving at 90 degrees plus here in Denver. I do plan to add UV blocking non tinted film to aid the ac as well.

[kamaro]

On my little experience with G-body factory A/C systems in very hot climate (where I live we see 110*F for at least 3 months in a row, there are two main problems with the stock system :

1- old design barrier hoses, they tend to leak through the hose surface (not sure how, but that's what I hear/read about), so you will loose refrigerant slowly and would not be able to pin point the leaking point, it just looks like its leaking a few molecules of refrigerant along the rubber hose surface.

2- The stock condensers will perform poorly with R134a, as they are designed for the odder R12, My '87 Carrera when it got the R12 with all the stock condensers, and the A/C was freezing cold, after I converted it to R134a, it lost at least 30 or 40% of its cooling power, I took out the two stock condensers and put one parallel flow one in the rear and its now cooling much better.

So in summary, get a newer barrier hoses, and put in a suitably sized and correct type condenser and you'll get a very good A/C comparable to any modern car.

In regard the electric A/C, a friend of mine got it in his car and he is very happy with it (not a Porsche, but an old Alfa Romeo), the only draw back is the cost, as you NEED to upgrade the alternator as the compressor alone will consume about 60A of power.

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by kamaro

only draw back is the cost, as you NEED to upgrade the alternator as the compressor alone will consume about 60A of power.

Yup.

Although it's worth mentioning that the alternator Classic Retrofit supply is a WOSP unit in a billet case using a contemporary alternator design, rather than a retread/rewind of the stuff Bosch was building in the 60's - so is an upgrade in its own right. I fitted one as a precursor to fitting the electric A/C. Which I have yet to get to..

CR supply replacement cables with the unit when you order from them (our host carries the alternator from WOSP, but I don't think they provide the uprated cables). Difference in cable gauge between what they supply and what the factory fitted is quite eye-opening...

I run mine with Clewett's serpentine belt/crank trigger conversion. MoTeC logs ECU voltage over 14V with engine running, no variance at any RPM. Also, my headlights no longer get brighter as I rev off idle anymore, nor do the gauge readings drop slightly when I put the lights on...

From their website Porsche 911 High Output 175A Alternator (1974-1983)

Tested at 150A amps on the standard 911 pulley and belt and with a simple installation process, this UK-manufactured upgrade is the highest output alternator available for your classic Porsche 911. The idle output is in excess of 75A!

This is a brand new unit with many important technical upgrades over standard. It is not rewound or reconditioned and there is no core charge or exchange. Based on the proven Denso 6 phase 'hairpin' alternator, the casing has been custom designed to fit all 911 fan housing from 1965 to 1989. The alternator offers superior efficiency and produces less heat than the original units.

and

Classic Retrofit's high output alternator developed in conjunction with WOS Performance is the ONLY alternator available for the 911 that can deliver a continuous current in excess of 100A. The alternator can deliver 75A at idle.

The design uses all new 6 phase internals inside a billet alloy casing that bolts into the 911 fan housing. It is a direct fit to early cars and requires spacers to fit mid and later years.

[aschen]

Installed Griffiths hoses, front condenser, blower fan, and evaporator and the AC in my 930 works pretty decent (using 134). Stock rear condenser and compressor. I don't need to be freezing in a classic car, just enough to not suffer when its 100+ out is fine for me.

[msgm1]

Originally Posted by aschen

Installed Griffiths hoses, front condenser, blower fan, and evaporator and the AC in my 930 works pretty decent (using 134). Stock rear condenser and compressor. I don't need to be freezing in a classic car, just enough to not suffer when its 100+ out is fine for me.

If I may ask what did the install in parts and labor cost pls?

[Bucketlist]

Originally Posted by msgm1

If I may ask what did the install in parts and labor cost pls?

If you are looking to install ac on your car you should look at my old thread:
Retroair complete system in my non a/c car
Yes this is from 2014 and cost about 3k back then, plus about 40 hours of my own labor. This is the best thing I have done to the car and still cools like day one.
Good luck!

[msgm1]

Originally Posted by Bucketlist

If you are looking to install ac on your car you should look at my old thread:
Retroair complete system in my non a/c car
Yes this is from 2014 and cost about 3k back then, plus about 40 hours of my own labor. This is the best thing I have done to the car and still cools like day one.
Good luck!

Wow 40 hours of labor!!!! At $1000 per hour at my local Porsche Dealer that $43k in total!!!

[aschen]

I installed about 2000$ worth of parts. The Griffiths systems come with the most complete assembly instructions you could ever find in aftermarket parts.

I don't think a Porsche dealership is the ideal place to take a 930 for a service like this, and 1000$ per hr isnt reasonable even in the context of a stealership.

I would think all in at a good independant porsche specialist your ac could be modernized for well less than $5000 in most if not all USA regions.

[Bucketlist]

Originally Posted by msgm1

Wow 40 hours of labor!!!! At $1000 per hour at my local Porsche Dealer that $43k in total!!!

Yea..... DIY old man on his back with car on jack stands, wouldn't ever pay anyone to this kind of work, thats why we own these cars.

[msgm1]

Originally Posted by bucketlist

yea..... Diy old man on his back with car on jack stands, wouldn't ever pay anyone to this kind of work, thats why we own these cars.

love it!!!

[TurboKraft]

Living in the scorching southwest desert, we only recommend Griffiths.
All new barrier hoses
Modern parallel-flow condensers with high output cooling fans
Modern evaporator core -- maybe the single best upgrade to any 911 AC system
Outstanding instructions

It will blow plenty cold on 105F days.

In our experience, the all-in cost of the CR system parts + labor is about the same, and the blower output is inadequate (unless they've upgraded that within the last 12 months).

[gsxrken]

Originally Posted by TurboKraft

Living in the scorching southwest desert, we only recommend Griffiths.
All new barrier hoses
Modern parallel-flow condensers with high output cooling fans
Modern evaporator core -- maybe the single best upgrade to any 911 AC system
Outstanding instructions

It will blow plenty cold on 105F days.

In our experience, the all-in cost of the CR system parts + labor is about the same, and the blower output is inadequate (unless they've upgraded that within the last 12 months).

Agree 1,000%. OP- go to Griffiths. Go directly to Griffiths. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200. You will be thrilled with the outcome. I still am, and I did it 13 years ago. https://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/692648-griffiths-ac-upgrade-930-install-thread.html

[M5guy]

I added Griffiths triple condenser system to an 76 930 I owned. It would turn your kneecaps blue.

PS: our local dealer won’t wotk on air cooled Porsches, not that I would consider going there for anything.

[msgm1]

Originally Posted by M5guy

I added Griffiths triple condenser system to an 76 930 I owned. It would turn your kneecaps blue.

PS: our local dealer won’t wotk on air cooled Porsches, not that I would consider going there for anything.

wowowowow, where is your local dealer?