Thanks for the feedback, guys. I'll stick with my plan of having knock status/control.

I will be running ECU Master Black on my 3.2 turbo conversion. I used the same ECU on my 95' Audi S6 that's running 30 psi of boost. It's a very versatile system and, yes, having knock detection is a big deal. My opinion is that Black is definitely worth it over the Classic. Also you will want to get the SD card data logging add on. VERY helpful when the car does something you didn't expect and you need to go back to diagnose.

For knock control, I've heard that the air cooled engines are so loud that the knock detection is of limited use. I'm still going to give it a try and will be installing the Porsche knock sensor bridge on each cylinder bank.

Difficulty: If that were true, explain why the factory fitted knock detection to the 964 generation onward?

Contrary to the advice given in the Bosch knock sensor product brief #292000P1LM-2016-DS, which states:

Other sources state to avoid locating the knock sensor too close to the valve train, as this is noisy.

Just bolt it to the block - pretty much the conventional location for most vehicles that came from the factory with one.

On the transmission bellhousing works fine, per Jake Raby.

This works for the same reason that you can (apparently) hear a train coming by listening to the rail, or whale songs are audible for an estimated 30-160 KMs underwater - thicker medium propagates sound better, which would dissipate much more rapidly in air.

I'm using an Emu BLACK and have a single knock sensor mounted to the bottom of the throttle bellcrank on the top of the case.

Being very new to ecus and software, I'm not qualified to give any advice, but from what I've learned so far, you need to run the engine to record the normal range of frequencies produced when it isn't knocking and then set set the levels in your knock table to be higher than the recorded frequency. So that if the ecu detects a frequency higher than the levels you've set for your engine, it determines it as a knock event.

The 964 used the knock bridge. I figured Porsche had their reasons so that’s why I opted to not bolt to the block. I don’t know how active the knock control was in the 964, but all manufacturers put serious time and $ into knock detection. Aftermarket ECUs that listen for a single (user defined) resonate frequency are very basic by comparison.

It’s possible that the block is the better place to mount the sensor for this engine. These kinds of things are rarely intuitive. Most OEMs mount to the block but up along the cylinder, typically near the top. The whole engine structure is pretty rigid so maybe the location isn’t that important

In my Audi I added a third knock sensor that I ran to an audio amp and a headphone jack in the glove box. Actually listening to the engine is what many tuners do as the knock sound is unique and easy identified. Not louder…but more harsh. I also tuned the engine on E85 to get a good engine noise baseline that I knew was knock free. You then set an allowable noise level beyond that baseline across various rpm and manifold pressures. I set it very close to the base engine noise so I get false detection pretty often. I’d rather stay on the safe side and have it pull a couple degrees of timing every once in a while.

“cgarr”! Did mine for the price of a good night out at a restaurant

Getting Close!
 

Transmission re-gearing is done and will be picking up tomorrow.

Long block is also nearly done. Might be able to pick up as soon as the end of this week or early next week.

It probably would've been done last week but we ran into a small snag with one of the oil control rings having a relatively small defect in it. (I could hardly see it until the builder pointed it out) We wisely opted to just get a new single piston set to replace. We don't want to create any hot spots along the ring. I'll add a pic of it later.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1731348346.jpg



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1731348346.jpg

Long block is back!
 

I got the long block back. Just in time for winter here in the PNW.

Now the fun begins. The plan is to basically get things up and running with my existing set-up: MSII, fuel-only.

I'm installing/adding the Clewett CAM sensor, TPS sensor and a knock sensor as I'll eventually upgrade to the MS3PRO EVO and go for a full sequential setup with COP twin-plug ignition and fuel. That's the plan at least.

I have a list of things I need to do before installing and the first start. May not be complete but it should keep me busy for awhile.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1733846730.jpg


I'm excited for the twin plug setup! However, I won't have it fully setup during the first phase of start-up and break in.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1733846730.jpg


One of the smaller side projects is to replace all the fuel lines pictured below and converting to -6AN fuel lines, plus a new Aeromotive FPR.

Paul Mason is helping me with some connections to get me going. I also plan to use his fuel kit to replace the tunnel lines as well.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1733846730.jpg

Some cosmetic progress.
 

Some cosmetic progress and a little camshaft drilling....

Mocking up a few pieces on the motor to see how things look and fit.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734919080.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734919080.jpg


Prepping the valve covers for paint.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734919080.jpg


Moving forward on updating to modern AN fittings and PTFE lines.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734919080.jpg


Some painting progress.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734919080.jpg


Cam sensor done and installed.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734919080.jpg

Kyle,

Where did you source the fuel rails from? Any info you have on these would be great.

Bill

I originally got them from the Bitz racing MSII EFI kit about 15yrs ago.

https://www.bitzracing.com/

Intercooler
 

Fitting the intercooler. Relocating from side intake to bottom...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1739380043.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1739380043.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1739380043.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1739380043.jpg

Enjoying the build thread. It’s really looking nice. I’m sure you’re getting excited now.

Yes, excited and nervous at the same time. So many things can go wrong on a fresh rebuild. I'm trying not to think about it that way... :)

I'm nearly ready to install in the car, but I have surgery scheduled tomorrow that will lay me up for a couple of weeks. Sometime in March though...

Nearly Ready for install.
 

Cleaning the engine bay to paint, but first starting to weld in some gussets on the shock towers for possible coil-overs in the future.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1740076620.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1740076620.png

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1740076620.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1740076620.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1740076620.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1740076890.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1740076890.jpg

VEMS has had onboard dual WBO2 and dual knock for like 15 years, just sayin'..

Nice build!

Thanks! I'm already familiar with Megasquirt. I like the ease of tunability, and price is right there with the VEMS, which also includes the harnesses. MS has become a lot more robust over the last few years with lots of cool features without adding to the price. And like a lot of the high-end ECU's, the support is huge!

Wiring Harnesses
 

While I recover from my hernia surgery, I figured I could get the sequential harnesses created, fitted and out of the way for when I'm ready to make the switch.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1740966059.jpg

Starting the Ignition Harness. Cylinder 1A and 1B (top and bottom) I'll cut and splice in the common ground and power once I have these all made. These connector pins are a PITA to build.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1740966059.jpg

Test fitting the top and bottom Ignition harness piece, with pass-thru hole cut in the engine tin to keep things neat.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1740966059.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1740966059.jpg

Injector Harness is complete. I'll dress it up later once it's been tested.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1740966059.jpg

Getting close....
 

Getting close to first start....

Electrical test and check = Good
Fuel test, pressure adjustment = Good
Oil and engine prime coming up next....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1750180581.jpg



ECU configured for slightly increased displacement (3.0 --> 3.2), VE Table increased 6.6% to compensate for the increased air. Injector FuelReq adjusted from 444lb to 60lb = Done

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1750180581.jpg


New Stack gauges installed (Fuel Press, Voltmeter and Boost) Fuel/Volt = Good
Shifter tunnel raised. Adjusted and shifts good as it sits. Interior will get some paint to cover fresh welds to the lowered seat rails and shifter tunnel.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1750180581.jpg


Will do oil prime/starter test (installed a new WOSP starter) before installing and finalizing position of intercooler.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1750180581.jpg


Nervous wreck before starting... check.

Cool

Sure there is no fitting issue with the Chassis corner/engine bearing in this area?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1750335076.jpg

As stock there is a big bent/dent in the tube and an angle, not straight up first.

Yea, this was just a mock-up. It will fit with a considerable 'angle' to clear the engine mount ear, but for now I just have the filter fitted down below the tin until I find a better solution.

How am I just seeing this thread!? Been wondering how your build is going? Looks like you're near the finish line. Looks great Kyle!

Unless you're browsing the turbo section often, I can see why you'd miss it. I haven't posted much on this thread so it gets buried pretty quickly.

The Sunday start might be on hold..

Yeah I have no reason to be here lol. Well just let me know when you're going to give it a go and I'll swing by!

Injectors clicking? MSII issue?
 

So, partial success but not quite there.

After testing for fuel pressure, oil pressure it was time to fire the engine.

Nothing at first. It would crank but nothing was 'catching'. We checked plugs and got power from the coil, then we pulled an ignition wire to test and got spark. We finally pulled all the plugs and cleaned.

We assumed we had fuel (we had good fuel pressure) but after pulling the plugs we could not smell anything.

Our attention turned back to fuel. Were the injectors firing? We pulled one of the injector connectors and was about to test for power and we turned the key to accessory and could suddenly hear the plugs clicking. Ok, that was new. Put the injector plug back on and the engine came to life. It seemed really rich and then suddenly cut after about a minute or less.


Now we don't get the injector click anymore.


I'm using the MSII relay board. Is there any settings I could be with the new injectors? The injectors don't seem to be firing at all now.
I have power to the relay board, both Hot and switched. When I turn the key to ON, switch power comes on both sides of the injector wires. Ground switched? But when cranking, my helper can't hear the injectors clicking.



Here's what changed with the fuel and MSII changes:

(My base setup is the same one I was just using with the old engine/turbo)

New 60lb injectors from Clewett. (Changed fuel requirement from 7.3 to 5.4)
Changed engine size from 3000 cc to 3200 cc.
Increased the VE table 6% to account for increased displacement.
New connectors for the injectors.






Kyle

Solved!
 

Issue resolved. I discovered I had the fuel lines crossed, even though I had drawn them out I still managed to eff it up.

Got her started yesterday and took her for a 30 minute drive to start breaking in the rings.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LDHJnpWV-pg?si=ju-aGWHzl3iah7r9" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Nice job! Love this build.

Sweet