Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog Tech Info Tech Forums
 
  Search our site:    
 Cart  | Project List | Order Status | Help    



Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Up North
Posts: 1,431
Quote:
Originally posted by catca
Where did you source the coils from?

Cheers
Mitsubishi dealer
__________________
87 930 K27HFS/B&B/Twin-Plug... Megasquirted
Old 11-01-2006, 05:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
7.0:1 > 11.3:1
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,680
Garage
Quote:
In fact, I was leaning her out as I started with 10.9
I wonder if it's not something as simple as carbon fouled plugs after having the mixture in the 10s.

Many years ago when I ran a hot turbo'd nissan race motor I frequently would carbon foul plugs from running too fat. Symptoms were similar to yours.

Did your motor ever pull clean to 7000 with boost since installing your efi?
Old 11-01-2006, 05:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jeff Alton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Langley,B.C.
Posts: 9,763
Quote:
Originally posted by hobieboy
Mitsubishi dealer
Hmmm, why didn't I think of that!

Cheers
__________________
Turn3 Autosport- Full Service and Race Prep
jeff@turn3autosport.com
996 Turbo, 997 S 4.0, Cayman S 3.8, Boxster 2.7, Boxster S race car, 996. Cayenne TT
Old 11-01-2006, 05:30 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Up North
Posts: 1,431
Hi Jim,

No, she had never run clean to 7000 with boost. I'm going to pull the plugs and will take a look (probably by the weekend) and try to play with different gaps and see what it will do.

I am lost in so far as I know a few who had succesfully ran similar set up (engine/EFI/twin plug/wasted spark) without issues - variable being SDDS coils (I think they are GM one?) and the actual ECU. But then if the ECU is controlling dwell & its inductive, I can't see a logical reason why things are that different
__________________
87 930 K27HFS/B&B/Twin-Plug... Megasquirted
Old 11-01-2006, 05:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #24 (permalink)
7.0:1 > 11.3:1
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,680
Garage
Yes, I believe that the SDS coils are GM or equivalent.

Regarding carbon fouled plugs, I think you may have to replace them. I don't think the gap resolved anything from what I recall, but that was lots of years ago - mid 80's.

I'm really clued-out by your discussion about your coils. I understand what's going on, but I had no idea that MS offered you the ability to mess with such variables.

Does your engine run clean to 7000 at very light load without any boost?
Old 11-01-2006, 05:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
Registered User
 
beepbeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,464
I would start with pulling the plugs, checking them for fouling and replacing them with appropriate heat range accordingly. If it doesn't work, pick two EDIS-6 coilpack on nearest junkyard. They are cheap and give good spark. Also, use MUX-ed ignition wire setup.
__________________
Thank you for your time,
Old 11-01-2006, 11:45 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
Registered User
 
beepbeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,464
P.S. Did you check your ignition map vs. boost/RPM? It might be software problem?
__________________
Thank you for your time,
Old 11-02-2006, 03:03 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
Crew Chief
 
prooutlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Wilkesboro, NC
Posts: 1,623
I had the same problem , installed MSD 6AL and fixed the problem
__________________
Herbert B.
GruppeB #093
Carolinas Region PCA Member
National PCA Driving Instructor
_______________

'71 911 RSR look
'74 914 2.0
'76 911S Targa
'83 930S Slantnose (13000 miles)
'86 951 Prototype Testcar built in '84 (56000 miles) Serial #00014
'86 951
'87 944

"Life is short , drive Fast"
Old 11-02-2006, 04:00 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Up North
Posts: 1,431
Jim, I'll try to see if I can pull cleanly to 7000rpm without boost - not so easy when 2nd gear tops out at ~135km/h The MS is actually quite flexible considering the price, though lots of DIY work. With the datalog capability, it pushed me over compared to SDDS which I thought was great value.

Goran, re:ignition map - yes, I was thinking about that too. I'm running 18 deg @ .9 bar (195kpa) and 17deg @ 1 bar (215kpa) in the 5000-6500 rpm range. Plug-wise, I'm running NGK BR8ES. It works for me before EFI, but maybe I need to try 7 heat range? (Even though the engine now flows way more air, it is twin plug. Having to go hotter seems strange).
__________________
87 930 K27HFS/B&B/Twin-Plug... Megasquirted
Old 11-02-2006, 04:14 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #29 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Up North
Posts: 1,431
Quote:
Originally posted by prooutlaw
I had the same problem , installed MSD 6AL and fixed the problem
Was it on your 930 or 911RSR? And you were using MS too?
thanks...
__________________
87 930 K27HFS/B&B/Twin-Plug... Megasquirted
Old 11-02-2006, 04:15 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #30 (permalink)
Crew Chief
 
prooutlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Wilkesboro, NC
Posts: 1,623
On the 930 , using the CIS
__________________
Herbert B.
GruppeB #093
Carolinas Region PCA Member
National PCA Driving Instructor
_______________

'71 911 RSR look
'74 914 2.0
'76 911S Targa
'83 930S Slantnose (13000 miles)
'86 951 Prototype Testcar built in '84 (56000 miles) Serial #00014
'86 951
'87 944

"Life is short , drive Fast"
Old 11-02-2006, 05:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #31 (permalink)
Forced Induction Junkie
 
WERK I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,080
Garage
Quote:
Originally posted by hobieboy

Goran, re:ignition map - yes, I was thinking about that too. I'm running 18 deg @ .9 bar (195kpa) and 17deg @ 1 bar (215kpa) in the 5000-6500 rpm range...........
Is that total advance? Isn't that about 6-7 degrees too low?
__________________
Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, 8:41 R&P
Old 11-02-2006, 05:40 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #32 (permalink)
 
Now Available for Ordering:   101 Projects For Your BMW 3 Series 1982-2000  [more info]
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Up North
Posts: 1,431
Quote:
Originally posted by WERK-I
Is that total advance? Isn't that about 6-7 degrees too low?
I think factory is 29deg @ 4000 with vacuum hose disconnected, but there's boost retard built into the distrbutor.

I'm not sure what the factory curve looks like exactly so rather run more conservative timing to start.
__________________
87 930 K27HFS/B&B/Twin-Plug... Megasquirted
Old 11-02-2006, 07:13 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #33 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: port st lucie/stuart florida
Posts: 350
How are the oil temps when you do runs like this??
Your timing sounds like it's off, You can't really base your ign off the stock dist curve well you can but your twin plug now, probably with different cams, intake, everything. If i were you i would pull some more timing and make a run and see if it runs better, if not start by adding a degree at a time and working your way up. I would also fatten up your afr to give you a little more wiggle room. Then after you get the car to run clean , then you can go back clean up the air fuel. After it runs clean i would really hit a dyno beause wht power the engine is making will tell you everything. I've tuned two exact same engines, i built them, everything was the same, one engine took more 10 degrees to get to MBT. Also don't forget to read your plugs WB meters are great but the plugs and tell all if read correctly.
Good luck
Old 11-02-2006, 08:21 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #34 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Up North
Posts: 1,431
An update...
Changed to new wires and re-connect back to "multiplex" mode (proper wasted spark configuration) and richen up the fuel a little. Now I can pull cleanly to 6500 RPM

However, in trying different things, I am quite sure I have blown one (or more) of my ignition drivers Probably because of the super long dwell (4ms) that I experimented with - heat probably killed the drivers as I'm now having occasional ignition drop out. Will have to replace them then test again.

Re:timing - as everyone suggests, I'm going to get her on the dyno to tune that. I have been waiting till I can at least run clean to redline before doing that. I picked 18 deg (@ >.6 bar & >4000 rpm) as one of my buddy with similar build (different ECU though) is running that for a few years without issue. Hence I used that as my starting point.
__________________
87 930 K27HFS/B&B/Twin-Plug... Megasquirted
Old 11-05-2006, 05:21 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #35 (permalink)
Registered User
 
beepbeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,464
Actually, you would need less ignition advance with twin plugs to achieve optimal BMEP as mixture combust quicker "when lightened from two sides", so your conservative advance map isn't so bad idea after all

You should do few dyno-runs to find your optimal timing but I wouldn't be surprized if it's in the ballpark of what you chose.
__________________
Thank you for your time,

Last edited by beepbeep; 11-07-2006 at 11:01 PM..
Old 11-05-2006, 09:51 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #36 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:42 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2016 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.