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WydRyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Cool The transplant has begun!!!

Hey all, just dropped my car off for the following upgrades:

- Garrett GT35R BB turbo
- Schnell/GSF stainless steel headers
- TiAL 46mm wastegate w/1.1bar spring
- Magnaflow 3" muffler
- SPEC Stage3+ clutch kit

Car should be ready on Friday if all goes well.

I can't wait to feel the difference. It's about time I got rid of those heat exchangers and J-pipe setup

Sorry, just sharing my excitement
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Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 11-07-2006, 03:32 PM
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lucky b@stard! Im bang out of bucks and don't have time to fart (2nd baby-what an education!!) so my engine is just sitting there looking all sad for itself, waiting for the day that its adorned with some efi, and a big intercooler. oh well. have a good friday!
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Andy

1980 SC soon to be big hp 3.3t powered 73RSR Replica (well, I'm keeping the engine but everything else is going )
Old 11-08-2006, 02:14 PM
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where did you get this"kit" from??
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Old 11-08-2006, 04:15 PM
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1.1 bar?
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Old 11-08-2006, 06:13 PM
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Yeh, 1.1bar. The motor is built to Protomotive Stage3 specs, so it should happily run 1.25bar, but I'm limiting it to 1.1bar for daily street use.

RRico, I just ordered the various bits from different suppliers in the USA.

Turns out the positioning of the turbo doesn't really allow me to drain into the chain cover, where I'd like it to, so the workshop is going to drain the oil to the sump plug via some custom hose/fittings

There may be some delays, so it looks like I'll only have the car sometime next week now
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Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 11-08-2006, 09:23 PM
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I suggest not to use wastegate spring as a boost regulator but either Dawes device or electronic boost regulator.

Spring is a fuss. Hard to install, hard to remove and you cannot crank down the boost if you need to. I would use 0.7 spring and cover everything above with a regulator.
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:35 PM
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looks sweet.
good luck on the install.
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Old 11-09-2006, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by beepbeep
I suggest not to use wastegate spring as a boost regulator but either Dawes device or electronic boost regulator.

Spring is a fuss. Hard to install, hard to remove and you cannot crank down the boost if you need to. I would use 0.7 spring and cover everything above with a regulator.
i second that. I know what happens if you don't have a boost controller and or a a guage
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Old 11-09-2006, 05:26 AM
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Hi Goran, can you explain to me how these two options work? how do you implement a regulator into the system? how is it controlled? whats a dawes device?
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Andy

1980 SC soon to be big hp 3.3t powered 73RSR Replica (well, I'm keeping the engine but everything else is going )
Old 11-09-2006, 08:20 AM
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Hi Goran. I actually run an Apexi AVC-R EBC to regulate boost but I was told using a preset boost setting IN the wastegate is actually more accurate and gives better response?!?

Anyway, the wastegate has a 0.8 + 0.3bar spring in it, so I can always remove the 0.3bar spring and run at 0.8bar base. Might be a good idea since summer is upon us soon
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Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 11-09-2006, 01:45 PM
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I'd also recommend running EVC or what are you running for engine control? i'd think you could get better response from modern boost controller because spring will allow leaking as you approach boost settting, controller can hold closed up to limit. ...can you control boost with engine controller?
Old 11-10-2006, 02:30 AM
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Merv: whoever told you that doesn't know what he's talking about. Boost controller will keep wastegate shut until preset boost arrives, it will then abruptly open the vent in order to keep boost at preset level. As long as spring load is greater then exhaust pressure behind, there is no difference between wastegate being shut by 0.7 bar spring or wastegate being shut by 1.1 bar spring. It's being shut and that's all that matters.

On the contrary, letting the spring control the boost usually leads to non-linear boost curve. As efficiency drops towards higher mass flow, boost regulated by spring only will typically start to taper downwards.

Electronic boost controller will usually detect this and start blowing off more poressure from wastegate bell to keep boost constant.

This is a log-file for typical boost profile with spring only:


As you can see, boost goes down as turbocharger runs out of breath. If I used electronic boost controller, boost curve could be kept reasonably flat. I could lower the boost peak around 3000 RPM (that kills my gearbox) and raise top-end boost somewhat for more poke.


So for all means, do use electronic boost controller if you own one. It will also allow you to lower the boost to your base boost (controlled by the spring tension) in case you expirience knock. With high temperatures present in Australia, I found it wise to be able to do so
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Old 11-10-2006, 05:28 AM
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Hey Merv,nice stuff there amigo. One of the advantages of controlling boost with the wastegate is that it removes the temptation to "crank it up". oh,just this once..only for a second..hey,watch this! The car is always at its fastest just before it blows up. The electronic boost controller will mak a big difference in the driving experience though,and the control is great.Greddy Profec B is sort of the standard for electronic controllers and used by all the Supra,Evo,Sti bunch. Regarding the sump drain Merv, l really think it`s time to buy that electric pump and re-circ to the oil tank amigo. You can run the oil through a mini filter and cooler system also if you want to get really trick.The pumps are available pretty cheap,trans cooler pumps work well,there`s lots of options.l don`t think the sump is the way to go there however.You can`t drain into the lower valve cover or cam cover?l.et me know.....R
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Old 11-13-2006, 07:59 AM
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Hey raceman

The workshop doing my install said they've seen many cars drain the oil back into where the sump plug is. It's the lowest point in the engine, so I can't see why it wouldn't work?

Also, I had them remove the smaller 0.3bar spring from the TiAL w/gate to set the base pressure to 0.8bar. I'll then use the existing Apexi AVC-R EBC to regulate it to 1.0-1.1bar

Just popped into the shop before and had a look at the progress and all is coming together nicely. Should have the car back tomorrow night if all goes well. They're just waiting on a fitting for the oil feed and also a silicone reducer where the charge air pipe mates with the IC.

We're going away for the weekend so I'm hoping the car will be ready for the loooong cruise

I just hope there aren't any oiling/smoking issues with the GT35R. ATPTurbo said not to use an inlet restrictor in a 911 application, since the idle oil pressure is low (1.0-1.5bar) and it never exceeds 70psi under load, so fingers crossed
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Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 11-13-2006, 07:33 PM
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Can someone educate me on an EBC? Operation/how it physically works on a 930/pics even?
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"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 11-13-2006, 08:19 PM
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As I understand it, an EBC ensures the wastegate stays closed until the preset boost levels is reached (this makes boost build faster), then it signals the wastegate to open to bleed off excess exhaust gas once the max boost setting has been reached.

Without an EBC, the engine relies on the wastegate boost spring to set the max boost level, however, the wastegate starts to open earlier/before the max boost level is reached, thus it takes slightly longer for boost to rise/build to the max setting.

Again, that's my understanding. Maybe some of the other turbo guru's here can elaborate more
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Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 11-13-2006, 10:33 PM
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Merv, I have it draining to the sump, just make sure you the drain is larger than a -10 and cool down the turbo before you turn off your car.
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Old 11-14-2006, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by YermanCars
Merv, I have it draining to the sump, just make sure you the drain is larger than a -10 and cool down the turbo before you turn off your car.
Thanks for tuning in man! Puts my mind at rest

Hopefully I pick the car up tonight. Can't wait to feel the difference
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Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 11-14-2006, 02:14 PM
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Merv, I am going efi. I bought Mike's SDS system, I will be twin plugging it w/ the 964 twin dizzy. I can't wait to have it all together.
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Old 11-14-2006, 02:25 PM
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Yeh, I saw ur post on C2T.com... congrats! I'm sure it's going to make a HUGE difference!

BTW, how do you plan to fit the 964 dizzy in with the intercooler plumbing interfering with the dizzy?

Do u plan to re-fab the up-pipe around the dizzy?

That is my next upgrade path too. My heads are already machined for twin plugs. Just need to get new leads and remapped CHIP from Protomotive. I have a nice 964 dizzy waiting at home for this conversion
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Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 11-14-2006, 02:29 PM
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