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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Glorious Pac NW
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Question Boost Controllers?

Hi,

Are boost controllers a good idea?

Do any of the manual/mechanical ones work well, or is it only the relatively spendy electronic ones that are really worth bothering with?

If any manual ones are worthwhile, is there any specific type that is better (e.g. needle jet), or any type (e.g. ball on a spring) to avoid? I have no desire to change boost levels whilst driving, BTW...

I understand how they work to raise maximum boost (and why it would be a good idea to use one instead of a stiffer spring in the wastegate), but I don't see how they can aid faster spooling as per some claims?

Thanks for any clarifications!
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'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things.
Old 11-26-2006, 01:56 PM
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EBC's ensure the wastegate stays closed until a preset boost level is reached, then it signals the wastegate to open so boost is regulated accurately. This ensures maximum exhaust energy is used to bring the compressor up to spool/boost.

Without the EBC, the wastegate begins to open and vent exhaust gas even before max boost is reached, so you lose a bit of exhaust energy during the spool-up phase. Basically, having an EBC will slightly improve turbo response/spool-up because it maximises exhaust flow to the turbine

I have an Apexi AVC-R unit and whilst it's a b!tch to setup and program, once it's set properly, it regulates very accurately. If I had to choose again, I'd probably go with a HKS unit, but the Apexi does look pretty
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Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition

Last edited by WydRyd; 11-26-2006 at 03:54 PM..
Old 11-26-2006, 02:37 PM
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I just installed a HKS EBC. Unfortunately I am still running my 1 Bar spring so I won't know how well it really works until I swap springs out this weekend.
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Rob Montgomery
'88 Blk/Blk 930 ('Lucy') - Not Stock & Not Running
Old 11-27-2006, 09:36 AM
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The good thing about the AVC-R is that you can define different boost levels for each gear, so you can trim down (or up) your max boost in any gear you like This is accomplished by varying the duty cycle below/above the base duty setting.
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Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 11-27-2006, 01:40 PM
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How does the unit know what gear you are in?
I would like to have this capability for my car which has no electronics whatsoever.
First gear needs to see Zero boost, second gear needs to see 0.5bar or there abouts. How can I do that?
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-27-2006, 02:03 PM
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The unit ties into the existing OEM loom using a variety of signals, such as injector pulse, RPM, speed etc... it must do some funky calculations based on this signals. In each gear it has an oscillating numeric reading, but each gear's output is unique, so that's how it knows.

Stephen has installed these on 930's before, so he'd know how to hook it up in your application.
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Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 11-27-2006, 03:07 PM
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I use a Turbo SX dual setting manual boost controller and it has been great. It doesn't know dick about anything except pressure and it allows you to have two permanent settings. I use a red covered switch on the dash to go to one bar and the rest of the time I'm in .7 bar. It is real easy to install and requires only one wire to the cockpit from the engine area. It sells for $175 and can be set fro any two settings you desire from the spring rate you have to any higher setting. There are no pretty gages or knobs and you won't be tempted to set it higher because of a stop light challenge. You have to set the two settings in the engine area. It's not high tech but it works well and it is not spending an arm and a leg and and half of your free time just to get it to work to do the same thing with electronics and multiple inputs. I have found that simple things are easier to understand and to work on. I tried to send an image but was unable to figure it out.
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Last edited by 911rudy; 11-27-2006 at 05:43 PM..
Old 11-27-2006, 05:34 PM
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I've read that MBC's introduce more boost creep at higher RPM's than EBC's.

Also, with an MBC, you need to re-adjust it if there are dramatic changes in the weather. An EBC will regulate fairly accurately no matter what ambient temps are.

I've never used a MBC, so my experience lies with EBC's only.
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Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition

Last edited by WydRyd; 11-27-2006 at 08:53 PM..
Old 11-27-2006, 08:49 PM
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Manual BC (Dawe's devvice) works fairly well.

Boost creep issue is somewhat overblown, in reality you are most likely not able to sense it. EBC knows which gear you are in by dividing speed signal with rev signal.

Best EBC's can even have custom boost profile vs. revs.
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Thank you for your time,
Old 11-27-2006, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by beepbeep
Best EBC's can even have custom boost profile vs. revs.
Yeh my Apexi can do that, but I can't be bothered setting it up... takes a lot of time to utilise all those fancy features and I'm NOT that much of a petrol head

I can set my EBC to over (ur under) shoot in whichever gear I want.

E.g:
1st gear = 0.8bar
2nd gear = 1.1bar
3rd gear = 1.2bar
4th gear = 1.1bar
5th gear = same as 4th typically.

It's a very flexible and tailorable EBC, once you set it up right.
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Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition

Last edited by WydRyd; 11-29-2006 at 02:11 PM..
Old 11-28-2006, 01:34 PM
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