Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog Tech Info Tech Forums
 
  Search our site:    
 Cart  | Project List | Order Status | Help    



Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
mark '87 930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 727
Garage
detonation/pinging??

I noticed today that under WOT, I can hear pinging in the engine. After reading about detonation, I think this is what it is.

I installed a GHL header and B&B exhaust, and running .9 bar boost... Would that be detonation? I'm about to put the car away for the winter and was going to take it to the dyno in the spring to check the A/F mixture and make sure it is tuned as optimally as possible.

Is that detonation.. ? Should I reduce the boost? Could it be the gas I run (91 octane)?
__________________
1987 930
1956 Chevy 3100
2009 Subaru Forester
2003 KX250 X2(I like my toys!!)
Old 11-26-2006, 05:53 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 810
Probably the fuel. But if you can hear it, its probably detonation.
__________________
Brian Keith Smith
Competition Custom Paint
1983 930
My Track Videos
TEC3 EFI Conversion on 1983 930
Old 11-26-2006, 06:08 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 455
The 930 I now own, on initial test drive, had a tank of cheap gas and detonated at wide open throttle. I was worried about the damage, but filling up with a tank of quality Chevron super unleaded cured the problem.
__________________
87 930
96 BMW M3 Coupe
89 951
Peugeot moped
Old 11-26-2006, 06:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
mark '87 930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 727
Garage
Would reconnecting my o2 sensor do anything to help?

Thanks for the tips so far.. the onyl thing I can get better than 91 is 94.. and that's only at Sunoco.. So I'll have to find them around my place.
__________________
1987 930
1956 Chevy 3100
2009 Subaru Forester
2003 KX250 X2(I like my toys!!)
Old 11-26-2006, 06:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Up North
Posts: 1,431
Quote:
Originally posted by mark '87 930
Would reconnecting my o2 sensor do anything to help?

Thanks for the tips so far.. the onyl thing I can get better than 91 is 94.. and that's only at Sunoco.. So I'll have to find them around my place.
I only use 94's on the 930... rather be safe than sorry for the little inconvenience. But then, having an excuse to drive around looking for one is not so bad eh
__________________
87 930 K27HFS/B&B/Twin-Plug... Megasquirted
Old 11-27-2006, 05:24 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
WydRyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,563
I've *ONLY* ever used 98RON (equal to your 94 PON) in my turbo Carrera. Won't use anything less than that. Better to have peace of mind IMO
__________________
Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 11-30-2006, 08:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
mark '87 930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 727
Garage
I'm impressed that a few octane levels makes such a difference! I will try that.
__________________
1987 930
1956 Chevy 3100
2009 Subaru Forester
2003 KX250 X2(I like my toys!!)
Old 12-01-2006, 03:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: MA USA
Posts: 2,938
Re: detonation/pinging??

Quote:
Originally posted by mark '87 930
I noticed today that under WOT, I can hear pinging in the engine. After reading about detonation, I think this is what it is.

I installed a GHL header and B&B exhaust, and running .9 bar boost... Would that be detonation? I'm about to put the car away for the winter and was going to take it to the dyno in the spring to check the A/F mixture and make sure it is tuned as optimally as possible.

Is that detonation.. ? Should I reduce the boost? Could it be the gas I run (91 octane)?
You could also retard the timing a hair.

If it was a cold day that you noticed it pinging, then it is probably due to your air/fuel being too lean. The cold air is denser and so you get more air in the motor but not more fuel.

Dean
__________________
Dean
911 SC turbo, 3.0L 930 motor, G50, 930 brakes, DTA EFI, 352 RWHP DynoDynamic dyno,
Old 12-01-2006, 05:42 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
mark '87 930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 727
Garage
Dean

It was a cool day (55 degrees or so).. that being said, would the octane level have made a difference if it was a touch lean?
__________________
1987 930
1956 Chevy 3100
2009 Subaru Forester
2003 KX250 X2(I like my toys!!)
Old 12-01-2006, 05:46 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: MA USA
Posts: 2,938
I believe every thing you can do helps but I am not sure.

I went EFI and solved the problem
__________________
Dean
911 SC turbo, 3.0L 930 motor, G50, 930 brakes, DTA EFI, 352 RWHP DynoDynamic dyno,
Old 12-01-2006, 02:07 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
garibaldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 337
Ive pulled a bunch of 930 motors apart and had the ring packages fall on the ground in numerous peices when I slid the cylinders off due to detonation. It doesnt take much
__________________
Christian Garibaldi
Im a photographer now, so I dont know jack sh#t about cars anymore, I sold my knowledge on ebay
Old 12-03-2006, 07:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
mark '87 930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 727
Garage
Now that's encouraging news!
__________________
1987 930
1956 Chevy 3100
2009 Subaru Forester
2003 KX250 X2(I like my toys!!)
Old 12-04-2006, 05:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
garibaldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 337
I know right? Well, when theres severe detonation, and the rings get busted up, you will obv feel a loss in power, but there will be tremendous blowby in most cases. I had a customer who ran a heavily modified 930 on the track and came in wondering why there was oil mist all over the back of his car, it was puking out of everywhere, the breathers, the filter, the rear seal had pushed out, and after pulling the motor apart, we found out why.....he was running the 47 piece ring package on his Mahles
__________________
Christian Garibaldi
Im a photographer now, so I dont know jack sh#t about cars anymore, I sold my knowledge on ebay
Old 12-04-2006, 08:21 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
mark '87 930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 727
Garage
47 piece... that must be the lightweight package with a 'some assembly required' insignia on the box!

Well, I'm going to pay close attention to it early in the spring next year and get it on a dyno to see what is happening..Also it's 94 octane from here on in.
__________________
1987 930
1956 Chevy 3100
2009 Subaru Forester
2003 KX250 X2(I like my toys!!)
Old 12-04-2006, 10:03 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
38D 38D is offline
Registered User
 
38D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Taxachusetts
Posts: 159
Detonation in a turbo is a serious problem. It takes only a few seconds to do major damage. I would do a leakdown to see if the engine is ok.

Higher octane fuel can help to prevent some detonation, bnut not all. If you have crazy high temps with bad timing, even 110 leaded will detonate.
__________________
- Colin
GTC Motorsports, PCA Club Racing National Scrutineer
'92 Euro Cup #96ZNS498058 (PCA GTC1 #19)
Past '91 C2 Turbo (PCA D Class #38), '04 Cayenne S, '74 914-6 3.2 (236rwhp), '02 986S M030, '71 914-4 2.1, '76 914-4 2.0
Old 12-04-2006, 01:07 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
WydRyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,563
Quote:
Originally posted by garibaldi
I know right? Well, when theres severe detonation, and the rings get busted up, you will obv feel a loss in power, but there will be tremendous blowby in most cases. I had a customer who ran a heavily modified 930 on the track and came in wondering why there was oil mist all over the back of his car, it was puking out of everywhere, the breathers, the filter, the rear seal had pushed out, and after pulling the motor apart, we found out why.....he was running the 47 piece ring package on his Mahles
I take it this car was also blowing out a blanket of blue-ish white smoke out the exhaust and idling like crap?

BTDT! Few years back, I got a bit TOO cocky with my EBC and pushed the boost past the limit of what the motor could handle at the C/R. It only took a 5 second burst to crack a big chunk of piston ring land off the #1 piston

THAT, my friend, was an expensive mistake. Was a perfect opportunity to rebuild it with much better go-fast bits though
__________________
Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 12-04-2006, 04:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
garibaldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 337
yeah, it smoked a little, but the best part was that when we went to go tanning, all we had to do was rub our male-thong clad bodies all over the rear to get all oiled up
__________________
Christian Garibaldi
Im a photographer now, so I dont know jack sh#t about cars anymore, I sold my knowledge on ebay
Old 12-04-2006, 06:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
WydRyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,563
Quote:
Originally posted by garibaldi
yeah, it smoked a little, but the best part was that when we went to go tanning, all we had to do was rub our male-thong clad bodies all over the rear to get all oiled up
Aarrgghh! I dunno what's scarier, an engine rebuild, or seeing your oily male-thong clad bodies

I think I'll take the engine rebuild ANY day
__________________
Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 12-04-2006, 06:38 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
 
Now Available for Ordering:   101 Projects For Your BMW 3 Series 1982-2000  [more info]
Registered User
 
mark '87 930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 727
Garage
wow.. that gives a new definition to pinging and detonantion I guess.

No thongs for me thanks..
__________________
1987 930
1956 Chevy 3100
2009 Subaru Forester
2003 KX250 X2(I like my toys!!)
Old 12-05-2006, 04:05 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
mark '87 930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 727
Garage
Dean, You mentioned retarding the timing.. how is that accomplished in these cars. The distributer cap is notched into place. the only other vehicle I timed was a '79 buick, and that was accomplished by turning the distributor cap with a timing light check the pulley! REALLY, I'm not that old!
__________________
1987 930
1956 Chevy 3100
2009 Subaru Forester
2003 KX250 X2(I like my toys!!)
Old 01-02-2007, 04:03 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:19 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2016 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.