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38D: What pictures are you comparing? I don't see two pictures...only one turbo with a blue tag. What are you referring to as the hybrid?
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Old 12-04-2006, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Jones
38D: What pictures are you comparing? I don't see two pictures...only one turbo with a blue tag. What are you referring to as the hybrid?
First picture in this thread. The pict I posted is of a K27.
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Old 12-04-2006, 04:59 PM
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My car is completely stock with the CIS. I run 93oct fuel. I'm planning on doing the standard upgrades. Turbo, intercooler, exhaust. So can I use a K27 7200hf (like what Sonny1 on Rennlist had for sale) with my set up? Or do I just need to stay with a regular K27?
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Old 12-13-2006, 10:03 AM
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I would get the fuel head mod done before going with a 7200hf.
Old 12-13-2006, 01:28 PM
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Go with the adjsutable WUR before the HF
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:31 PM
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Well too late. I just picked up a K27 7200 HF. Again I was talking with ImagineAuto and they said I could run this with my CIS without fuel enrichment or EFI. Then they pretty much talked me into a Tial.

Craig911 - Do you have a link or something to a WUR that you're talking about? What is that, a Warm Up Regulator? What is the advantage to an upgraded WUR?

Again sorry for the stupid questions....
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:55 PM
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Bill, I'll be brutally honest here......you really ought to educate
yourself about the nuances and the what-to-dos of 930s before you go buying stuff.

Don't crank up the boost with that K27 HF without being certain of your AFRs.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:33 PM
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A further benefit you will get from the K27HF compared to your stock K26 will be cooler inlet temps. But as Craig says you do not want to go lean.

An adjustable WUR means you can adjust AFR at different levels throughout. If you exceed the flow of your fuel head then you will still be lean at the top end. IA can modify your fuel head to be able to flow more fuel, I have one as well as the K27HFS.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
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Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

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Old 12-13-2006, 03:48 PM
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I have heard Stephen say that sometimes one does not need the fuel head - but I would definitely get the adjsutable WUR from Brian Leask - and thoroughly educate yourself as to it's adjustment and use.

And plan for dyno time and perhaps an Innovate AFR meter.
Bill, time to start learnin'! ;-)

We can help.

P.S. Will your car ever see track time?
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 12-13-2006, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Craig911
Bill, I'll be brutally honest here......you really ought to educate
yourself about the nuances and the what-to-dos of 930s before you go buying stuff.

Don't crank up the boost with that K27 HF without being certain of your AFRs.
Oh, I know. But where does one go to do that? Is there a book, thread, link, give it to me and I'm all for it. All I've done is pick up a little here and a little there. Is there a formula for setting up these cars somewhere, I haven't found it.

This is my master plan and you guys can tear it apart:
K27 7200hf Turbo
Blownsix or Kokeln Intercooler
Tial Wastegate with .8 BAR boost spring
Free Flow Muffler

Tell me what I'm missing or what I should add to this reciepe to ensure I don't blow it up, but it seems like to me this is a pretty standard set of upgrades from the little bit I've found out. FYI all these things will be going on at the same time. So it may be a while before they are actually installed.

I've owned my 930 exactly one year now so all this turbo stuff I'm just starting to learn. I really appreciate everyones comments, posts, and suggestions, etc.... so keep 'em coming, I can take it.

PS - No, I didn't plan on track time with it. If I'm going to do track time I'll use the '85 for track stuff. At least for now.
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:15 PM
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You still have emission tests for your car in Michigan?
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 12-13-2006, 04:31 PM
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Pretty lame thread I started - and didn't yet finish:
RPM switch/solenoid/965 BS IC install process
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 12-13-2006, 04:35 PM
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Nope, it's free to do as I wish. The only problem that would arise would be at a muffler shop. They won't work on your muffler unless you have a CAT installed. But I don't care cause on the P-cars I do the muffler work.

That brings me to another point, but I don't want to derail my own thread, I'd like to remove all the emissions stuff but I don't know what is emissions and what is needed so I left it all there for now. This is for another thread so lets try to stay on topic with the turbo stuff.

What did you think of my recipe for disaster?
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:36 PM
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Here is your recipe:

1) B&B or GHL headers with heat
2) Kokeln or BS IC
3) K27 HF or HF-S - you have his, so bueno
4) Muffler? Nah ;-)
5) Probably an adjustable WUR
6) Healthy AFRs

An ingredient or two may be missing, but I'm heading out to dinner....
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 12-13-2006, 04:53 PM
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If I were you, and I was a year ago, I would get or borrow an LM-1 to measure the AFR at WOT, (Wide open throttle), as you modify your car. Then each time you change something, you can retest to see if your AFRs are ok. I added a B&B IC, K27 turbo, headers and a mechanical two position boost controller. Today, road testing my car without doing anything to the WUR or fuel head and with the boost set at the one bar position, I had an AFR of 12.3 at WOT and 6000 rpm. I don't think you will need the fuel mod or the adj. WUR unless you do more to your engine. Maybe with the K27 HF or what ever the latest version is, you might go lean at full one bar boost and WOT but thats why you need an LM-1. Infact, now that I have one I was wondering if we might work out a system where you guys could rent it from me and keep it for a while then return it for the next guy to use. I was going to mount it permanently but have decided against it. You only need it about twice a year or after any enginge mods, for street use. What do you guys think?
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:33 PM
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Good advice. I bought that setup.
Yet, you may (probably will) find that the AFRs are pretty wobbly bottom to top - and might want a way to adjust them.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 12-13-2006, 06:36 PM
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You don't need a new fuel head, you probably don't need a TiAL wastegate, you probably don't need an adjustable WUR, and you're not going to blow up your engine.

The engine combo you have described is mild.
The stock fuel head will support up to 400HP at the crank.
Sock WURs tend to run RICH, not lean, while on boost on a mildly modded engine such as what you have described.

What you do need to do, in order to be properly informed, is to purchase some diagnostic tools. A CIS pressure tester and a wide band A/F meter or LM1 is a good start. Put all your go fast goodies on the engine and tune it up. Once you get it running well check the A/F ratio throughout the full RPM range, either with the A/F test equipment or on a dyno. With that data you will know if your WUR needs adjusting.

Stephen won't sell you anything you don't need. If your stock wastegate is functioning properly there is no need to spend several hundred dollars on a TiAL, unless you just want one. You can also rebuild your stock one for $50.

You can make your own WUR adjustable if need be. The fully adjustable units are necessary for a high output CIS engine (above 400HP to the crank) but not so much for engines such as yours and mine.

Now with all that said, these are all nice items to have if money is no issue. The only item I would truely never use unless the need was proven by lean A/F ratios is the modded fuel head. Moving more fuel than you need will blow your gas mileage and can actually cost you power if the A/F ratios become too rich. Stephen will tell you the same thing.

As for smog equipment, the only thing your engine needs to run is a WUR and a fuel head. Period. Everything else can go. You will also want to keep the cold start injector and the auxilliary air regulator for easy cold starts during those nippy months in Michigan.
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:46 PM
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Excellent advice.

Bill, you need to learn about the terms mentioned here in order to perform these tasks - and decide how far you want to go with this thing.

Personally, if you didn't catch it in my last post, I to some extent wasted money buying the Tial.

Do be aware of the fact that the HFS turbo does indeed pump a lot of AIR into your engine, very efficiently. AFRs are either your friend or your enemy. Just watch them to keep 'em on your side.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 12-13-2006, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RarlyL8
What you do need to do, in order to be properly informed, is to purchase some diagnostic tools. A CIS pressure tester and a wide band A/F meter or LM1 is a good start. Put all your go fast goodies on the engine and tune it up. Once you get it running well check the A/F ratio throughout the full RPM range, either with the A/F test equipment or on a dyno. With that data you will know if your WUR needs adjusting.
These tools have now been added to my list to get. I have to do a valve adjustment and tune up anyway soon. Getting close to that 60k mile service. It would be nice to tune it up once with all my new parts installed.

And thanks for the tip on the smog equipment stuff too. I'd like to get that all out of there to clean up the engine compartment.

It doesn't sound like my master plan was too far off then. Thanks everyone!!!
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Old 12-14-2006, 03:53 AM
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I wouldn't go for the blownsix intercooler yet as they have not been proved to work. Stephen can supply you with a B&B intercooler that he assures is excellent. It is a copy of the 964t type.

You missed headers out. Headers will give you quicker spooling of your turbo and also add approx 25bhp.

If you don't increase the boost pressure you won't need a better intercooler & can always fit one later when funds allow. If you do the headers later your turbo, muffler etc will have to all come off again.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 12-14-2006, 10:03 AM
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