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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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"Ok, I just got off the phone with Imaginauto. They said that the Tial wastegate prevent boost leakage WAY better then the factory wastegate. Due to the internal plastic parts in the factory wastegate giving out faster. Now I think I'm leaning towards the Tial."

That statement is not apples to apples. If the stock waste gate is freshly rebuilt and the TiAL is brand new they would most likely function the same.

I have a rebuilt factory wastegate on my engine. It works perfectly with no boost creep. It pegs the same number every time like clockwork. If someone gave me a TiAL I would use it but I certainly would not label the factory unit faulty without first spending the $50 to rebuild it.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:12 PM
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wcc wcc is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by RarlyL8
I have a rebuilt factory wastegate on my engine. It works perfectly with no boost creep. It pegs the same number every time like clockwork. If someone gave me a TiAL I would use it but I certainly would not label the factory unit faulty without first spending the $50 to rebuild it.
Very good point. Man, this is hard. They convinced me with the whole factory WG bleeding boost problem. But I really haven't had an issue either now that you mention it. But I figured since it's going to be accessible that I might as well rebuild it or switch to a Tial.
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:19 PM
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Clarification:

B&B + stock perfectly functioning factory wastegate at .8 bar registered *exactly* .8 bar from 3,200 to redline on the Porsche factory test gauge - one marked in tiny graduations and about 1 foot in diameter. Quite the gauge! Impressively level and consistent readings throughout the range.

Now, the same B&B headers + Tial at .8 bar registered .90+.
Back-to-back comparisions. Acording to Brian Leask (adjustable WUR guy), this is pretty common.

Probably a function of wastegate pipe size in relation to how the WG senses boost - my guess. Just be aware tha this is a distinct possibility. Being off by .10 to .15 bar can make a difference.

Make certain that your factory WG is in fine shape. If it is, why waste money on a Tial. Mine was perfectly fine, but I bought a Tial anyway...

If I recall correctly, vital parts of the factory WG are impossible to rebuild due to NLA parts - or some such issue.
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:27 PM
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Personally, I tend to look at it from the longevity factor. So the Tial will cost a few hundred more than rebuilding the stock wg. Well the Tial is built with far more superior materials and metals which will pretty much resist ALL corrosion and, theoretically, last longer than the car itself. Personally, it's worth it to me to pay more up front just for the fact that I'd likely never have to mess with the wastegate again. That being said, Tial wastegates are probably about the best quality ones you can get on the market. There are plenty of other manufacturers out there, such as Turbonetics (delta gates are CRAP; avoid 'em like the plague!), Greddy, HKS, Turbosmart......and the list goes on. Some of them make some decent stuff, though Tial's are so inexpensive anyways that you really can't do any better going with another brand.
Old 12-13-2006, 06:44 PM
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This will help illustrate the boost differences:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=317339
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Old 12-13-2006, 10:41 PM
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well should any of you need any wg I have several new 46 tial here just sitting
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Old 12-14-2006, 02:40 AM
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Ok, well I've decided to rebuild the factory WG. Now, if for some reason I can't source the parts because of NLA, then I'll probably switch to a Tial. This seems to be resolved for me at the moment.

mb911 - I'll keep you in mind in case it works out that I need a Tial.

Thanks everyone!!!!
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Old 12-14-2006, 03:29 AM
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So what size wastegate do we use? Looks like 46 is the one referenced... and this costs $470 ~ $550?
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Old 12-14-2006, 06:09 AM
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The 46mm is the direct replacement. The standard 46 has full fins and there's a special 46 for the 930 that has shorter fins to give more clearance for removing the valve cover. The special one is another couple hundred dollars and I don't know if anyone actually buys them.
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Old 12-14-2006, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 125shifter
The 46mm is the direct replacement. The standard 46 has full fins and there's a special 46 for the 930 that has shorter fins to give more clearance for removing the valve cover. The special one is another couple hundred dollars and I don't know if anyone actually buys them.
The price is the same when I buy them from tial I never new they charged more in retail
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Old 12-14-2006, 06:58 AM
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Sure, Ben. You can't charge us Porsche Enthusiasts the same as Honda Enthusiasts. First, the part would be junk and second you'd loose the chance to make big profits I once heard of some vendor making SS mufflers for a reasonable price. You could call it a Ferrari part and add 50% margins yet.
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Old 12-14-2006, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lukesportsman
Sure, Ben. You can't charge us Porsche Enthusiasts the same as Honda Enthusiasts. First, the part would be junk and second you'd loose the chance to make big profits I once heard of some vendor making SS mufflers for a reasonable price. You could call it a Ferrari part and add 50% margins yet.
I look at these thing more of a service then anything . It was kind of my pet project and because of that I bought allot of WG and BOV from tial. Last time I got athe smaller version (930)quoted from tial it was something like 425. I would have to go back and look
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Old 12-15-2006, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mb911
The price is the same when I buy them from tial I never new they charged more in retail
Well that sucks, I was told by a (usually) well respected dealer that there was a price difference and that they never sold the ones with the shorter fins.
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Old 12-15-2006, 06:43 AM
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I bought my 46mm wastegate from a ricer tuner company. No fitment issues. It is mounted on B&B header system. The "fitment" issue is mute because it is so frickin' easy to remove the wastegate and swing it out of the way when adjusting the exhaust valves. The intakes should be so easy!
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Old 12-15-2006, 07:18 AM
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I experienced significantly higher boost levels with the TiAL and B&B header combination that before. My 1B spring set up in the TiAL was netting close to 1.3B. I actually moved down to a .8B spring and was still reaching 1.1B.

Right now I am running a .5B spring with a EBC (which I am still trying to get familiar with).
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Old 12-20-2006, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 930LDR
I experienced significantly higher boost levels with the TiAL and B&B header combination that before. My 1B spring set up in the TiAL was netting close to 1.3B. I actually moved down to a .8B spring and was still reaching 1.1B.

Right now I am running a .5B spring with a EBC (which I am still trying to get familiar with).
It sounds like to me that your WG isn't functioning right. That isn't even close to your spring. You may want to look into why it isn't boosting at the spring rate. Maybe your spring is sticking? Maybe it needs to be replaced? It should be consistent with the spring. I'd be careful not to over boost. Hopefully, someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 12-20-2006, 09:24 AM
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Again, the Tial combined with the B&B usually results in significantly higher boost that the stock wastegate. FWII, this is with "the smaller WG pipe" - from what I've heard.
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Old 12-20-2006, 02:29 PM
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i was told the Tial is lighter!... anyhow, as some of you may recall I had to spend the big bucks and get a 46 MM Tial because my factory WG is seized onto my factory headers no longer on the car!

LOTS OF CASH.... I was in a bind as well, I needed one right away, so I had to bend over and then come home with the new shiny TIAL WG!

it ironically measured lower than stock boost, but I added a boost controller afterwords and adjusted as I wanted...

If I could have gotten my hands on stock WG, I would have bought that instead and saved my loot for an IC!
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Old 12-20-2006, 02:52 PM
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My understanding (From Stephen) is that GHL or B&B headers flow so much better than stock headers, there's a lot more flow going to the WG. I used a .8 spring in my Tial (and GHL's) to get 1 bar.

Quote:
Originally posted by wcc
It sounds like to me that your WG isn't functioning right. That isn't even close to your spring. You may want to look into why it isn't boosting at the spring rate. Maybe your spring is sticking? Maybe it needs to be replaced? It should be consistent with the spring. I'd be careful not to over boost. Hopefully, someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
Old 12-20-2006, 05:14 PM
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Yet if you take a set of B&Bs + stock WG, the boost is usually right on with a given spring rate.

B&Bs + Tial = A higher actual vs. numbered spring rate...and usually more than just a bit.
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"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 12-20-2006, 05:56 PM
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