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tsuter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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Quote:
Originally posted by wcc
I agree with Brian (RarlyL8). Within your post (tsuter) you contradict yourself. If you have an exhaust leak, you have an exhaust leak. I DON'T really care what spring you have, you have an exhaust leak. That is ridiculous.

Wastegates leak exhaust all the time......more so if they're used as the primary boost control..........

I NEVER heard of a boostcontroller leaking.... unless it's OPEN!!!

The wastegate won't leak if you do this.......



Muhahahaha! Don't try this at home.....
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tsuter
78 911SC Turbo Targa
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Old 12-24-2006, 06:13 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #61 (permalink)
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Wink

Quote:
Originally posted by wcc
...... if the spring actually controls the lowest about of boost and use a controller for the rest, WHY BOTHER WITH THE 1.0BAR SPRING? I'd go with the lowest spring avial, and turn it up as necessary. Did I miss something here?
Yeah.... you've been missing something....but you're starting to catch on.

Run a .4-.6 bar spring so it stays closed at no or low boost and you don't have exhaust leaks......at the wastegate......

Muhahahaha!
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tsuter
78 911SC Turbo Targa
Thaaaats Right!!
Old 12-24-2006, 06:18 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #62 (permalink)
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Since some guy is now talking about running 2.3 bar....
Rule of thumb is get the wastgate color spring at 60-70% of the max boost you plan to run and let the MBC/EBC do the rest.

Oh and can someone post a factory turbo production car newer than 10years that uses a wastegate as the primary boost control vs a EBC??


Didn't think so.....

Ghetto is as ghetto does....
Muhahahaha!
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tsuter
78 911SC Turbo Targa
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Old 12-24-2006, 06:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #63 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Sometimes, in specific applications, newer is not necessarily better or even needed for that matter.
A street 930 will most likely never experience significant boost creep, meaning enough to even notice. I could care less if my car rings out every last once of horsepower or if the wastegate cracks open a millisecond early. **** happens real fast in these cars. We're talking practicality here. I hate to see people spend money needlessly. Try the wastegate first and if you just can't live with that 5HP boost creep loss then buy a ricer gizmo and fix it.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 12-24-2006, 09:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #64 (permalink)
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"The boost creep issue people are seeing with Tial's on B&B headers has nothing to do with a fault of Tial wastegates. Tial's are about as high quality as wastegates get. I don't know much about the B&B 930 headers, however from a common sense standpoint, there are alot of issues when designing headers that can cause boost creep or other wastegate/boost control related issues. Some of these are too sharp (such as a 90 deg. bend) or too short of a wastegate runner from the manifold, too small of a diameter for the runner, etc. It's more likely there is some sort of flaw with the B&B design that is causing the inconsistant boost levels."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Important to understand that the issue here is:

B&B + Factory WG = Usually no problems; ie stated srping rate = actual.

B&B + Tial WG = From .1 to .3 higher actual boost than the stated spring rate.

Yes, this can be a big deal.

One can easily derive that the Tial + the WG pipe config. of a B&B equals higher than anticipated boost.
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Last edited by Craig 930 RS; 12-24-2006 at 11:13 AM..
Old 12-24-2006, 11:10 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #65 (permalink)
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Hey Tsuter, I didn't realize you're in SA?! I live/work here in SA now. It's a small world I guess. Also, the 2.3bar thing was purely a hypothetical scenario. I wasn't implying it's a good idea for anyone. It was just an example.

Craig, but has anyone determined the actual cause of the boost creep? I've seen alot of people blame it on the Tial wg itself as if it is some poorly designed unit. This couldn't be farther from the truth. In reality, there is just some sort of issue with those headers that doesn't lend itself to working well with the Tial. I'll say from my experience, I had a perfectly good working 930 WG, that was recently rebuilt, on my Carrera for awhile. I switched to a Tial 46 and noticed a substantial and worthwhile improvement. Spool between gearchanges was significantly improved. Before it would take a second or 2 to spool back up between gears. Also, the overall boost threshold was lowered by a good ~500rpm if not more and full boost comes in at about the same ~500rpm sooner. I have Billet Design headers though, and I don't see any boost creep so technically it's not really comparable to the B&B's. Anyways, I'm not suggesting there isn't a problem. There obviously is, and it's obvious that it might not be the best idea to use a Tial on the B&B's until someone figures this issue out. My only point is that there is nothing wrong with Tial WG's.

Hasn't someone tried modding the B&B wg pipe to correct this problem? I could of sworn I remember reading about someone doing this in some forum?
Old 12-24-2006, 07:10 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #66 (permalink)
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I believe I heard here somehwere that the WG pipe on B&Bs is now larger - or in some way has been changed currently to work more accurately (?) and is no longer a problem.

It is Christmas, so I can't call B&B to find the facts.
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Old 12-25-2006, 09:28 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #67 (permalink)
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I thought it was GHL that you used to have to order with a larger wg pipe.
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Old 12-26-2006, 06:54 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #68 (permalink)
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I may go and try my stock WG and see where that gets me compared to my tial. Just need to get a stock spring for it.
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Old 12-27-2006, 05:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #69 (permalink)
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my boost was dead on the with tial (when I checked it) it was always 6 psi never any more never any less and I use a 46mm WG so maybe it is all in the design of the header??????????
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Old 12-28-2006, 04:16 AM
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well if anyone wants to try one I have just done inventory and I have a barely used 46mm That I would sell for 375 otherwise this is all specualtion
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Old 12-28-2006, 02:16 PM
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Those Tial units look far too pretty to hide under the car. Especially with all that mud and icky dirt. But it sure does sound like a nice addition.

So how many of you have replaced the clock with a vacuum boost guage? That would seem like a worthy addition if you went for the Tial.
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Old 12-31-2006, 12:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #72 (permalink)
 
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I have. It's much more accurate.

Quote:
Originally posted by BlkBird

So how many of you have replaced the clock with a vacuum boost guage? That would seem like a worthy addition if you went for the Tial. [/B]
Old 12-31-2006, 04:07 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #73 (permalink)
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has anyone had any luck locating parts to rebuild the stock wastegate?
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Old 01-08-2007, 02:36 PM
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I have the telltale NHS boost gauge and my TiAL unit pins boost at 1.0bar all day, every day

Perhaps you guys are seeing boost creep due to too much exhaust back pressure or something?
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Old 01-08-2007, 02:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #75 (permalink)
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