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wcc wcc is offline
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Tial Wastegate VS Factory Wastegate

Really..... What's the difference besides the good looks? I've read that the OEM one can malfunction (ticking time bomb) and cause hell on the engine. So what makes the Tial one better?

I'm planning on rebuilding my OEM wastegate this spring, but now I'm thinking about picking up a Tial. But I can't make up my mind, cause I don't see a difference.
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:05 PM
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The TiAL is smaller and lighter. In terms of how accurate one is compared to the other, I cannot comment. I've heard they're both very accurate w/gates. My TiAL is very accurate. Pins boost right at 1.0bar no matter what
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Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 12-12-2006, 06:09 PM
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wcc wcc is offline
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Smaller, Ok. Lighter, Ok, but how much lighter? I mean is it significant?

As far as being accurate, isn't that really based on the quality of spring? Just curious.
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:15 PM
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I don't think the TiAL functions significantly better than a stock waste gate, it is just another option. It is smaller and comes in anodized colors to dress up your expensive engine. The small size may help it fit better in some applications.
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:49 PM
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wcc wcc is offline
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Ok, that's what I thought. I suppose the size would be a big factor if you were going with a K29 or something of that size or bigger. They look sweet, that's for sure.
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:12 AM
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It's a lot smaller but not a lot lighter.
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:26 AM
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It is also alot cheaper !
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
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1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

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Old 12-13-2006, 07:14 AM
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wcc wcc is offline
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Well I guess if you don't have one to begin with that would be a whole different ball game. I already have one, it came with the car. So it's actually WAY cheaper for me to rebuild it (basically new gaskets ~$50, and Spring) then to get a new Tial.

Well I've decided to keep mine and rebuild it instead of going with the Tial for now. I can put the difference towards a better intercooler.
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:20 AM
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When I removed mine to refit to new headers the studs all broke...
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 12-13-2006, 07:31 AM
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Well yeah, that sucks! But I think you'd still be ahead if you drilled them out and put in new studs. Unless studs are really expensive. I don't know, maybe you can't even get 'em? Hopefully, mine comes apart and goes back together trouble free.
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:41 AM
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How's the diaphragm? If it's bad, have you been able to locate a new one?
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:17 AM
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I haven't got into it yet. But I did make a call to Jerry at EuroEast cause he's local and he didn't sound like there was an issue for getting parts. That's who I got my rough cost of about $50 bucks to rebuild it. I'm sure it'll cost me more then that, but it's still not that bad.
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:35 AM
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Per any given stated spring size (bost rating), Tial + B&B headers typically results in a surprising amount of higher boost than B&B + a stock WG.......
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:40 AM
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Craig911 - I guess I just don't get it. Doesn't the boost spring control the boost? A .8 spring is going to give you .8 BAR boost. If I follow what you are saying apples to apples, a .8 spring in the factory wastegate and a .8 spring in a Tial, you'd get more boost with the Tial? That doesn't make sense to me. So what controls the boost?

Sorry for all the newbie questions, but I'm still learning how this whole thing (Turbos) work.
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:55 AM
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I'm also confused

I have the Schnell/GSF headers with a TiAL46mm wastegate with 1.0 bar spring in it. I don't get ANY boost creep if I turn my EBC off and just rely on the internal base spring. Both my EBC and NHS boost guage pins right at 1.0bar every single time.

From what I've heard, the GSF/Schnell headers are identical to the B&B's (without heater boxes), so why is my setup not experiencing boost creep and you other guys are?!?
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'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 12-13-2006, 01:05 PM
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wcc wcc is offline
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Ok, I just got off the phone with Imaginauto. They said that the Tial wastegate prevent boost leakage WAY better then the factory wastegate. Due to the internal plastic parts in the factory wastegate giving out faster. Now I think I'm leaning towards the Tial.

EDIT: So it sounds like if you are running a .8 spring you would get actually a little less boost with the factory wastegate. But you would get the FULL .8 BAR with a Tial.....
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by wcc
EDIT: So it sounds like if you are running a .8 spring you would get actually a little less boost with the factory wastegate. But you would get the FULL .8 BAR with a Tial.....
Sounds right... I get the full 1.0bar with the TiAL every time. I've only ever used TiALs, so I can't comment on any other w/gates.

Go with the TiAL I say... it's a common upgrade for enthusiasts
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'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 12-13-2006, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by wcc
Well yeah, that sucks! But I think you'd still be ahead if you drilled them out and put in new studs. Unless studs are really expensive. I don't know, maybe you can't even get 'em? Hopefully, mine comes apart and goes back together trouble free.
I drilled out one of the studs but it wasn't exactly in the centre. It was very time consuming. I am sure I would have had to slot the wastegate holes on the headers to get it to fit again. I just thought WTH I have spent thousands anyway... At least I know that I could have fixed it up if I really wanted too. I would have used stainless studding just like the rest I have changed on the car if needed.


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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg

Last edited by NathanUK; 12-13-2006 at 03:36 PM..
Old 12-13-2006, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by NathanUK
I just thought WTH I have spent thousands anyway...
That was my main excuse.

On top of that it looks great. It's so well machined, I left it and my blow off valve on my desk at the machine shop where I work and everyone was impressed.
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Craig911
Per any given stated spring size (bost rating), Tial + B&B headers typically results in a surprising amount of higher boost than B&B + a stock WG.......
Ok I must disagree unless the stock one is malfunctioning. I use the 46mm tial on mine but that staement has me baffled. i suppose there might be some cases but as I said it must be messed up stock WG
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Old 12-13-2006, 05:27 PM
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