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930gt-40r's Avatar
 
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OOOCH! Thats the kind of thing to make your skin crawl. I didnt have that big of a crack, mine stayed together but had many small cracks. If the muffler is supported, there shouldnt be much of a problem, but like you said the whole thing is supported at that one spot which is certain death, that was my problem. I have to hack mine up to put a garret flange on it soon and may even coat them when done. Im also wondering where I could get that flange that MB911 has got, it looks bomb proof.
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Kris
86' 930/GT-40R Sold
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Old 01-01-2007, 01:02 PM
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The breakage I showed was caused solely by the WG lever-arming the pipe right off - caused by the broken WG pipe atttach tab.
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Old 01-01-2007, 01:06 PM
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Mine just cracked all around and in between all three joints, but yours does not look like fun.
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86' 930/GT-40R Sold
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Old 01-01-2007, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 930gt-40r
OOOCH! Thats the kind of thing to make your skin crawl. I didnt have that big of a crack, mine stayed together but had many small cracks. If the muffler is supported, there shouldnt be much of a problem, but like you said the whole thing is supported at that one spot which is certain death, that was my problem. I have to hack mine up to put a garret flange on it soon and may even coat them when done. Im also wondering where I could get that flange that MB911 has got, it looks bomb proof.
I can check with John and see if I can buy just that part if you would like just one
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Current project 73 914-6 Gt project rusteration 2.4

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Old 01-01-2007, 01:22 PM
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If you please could it would be a big help, I dont think I would ever have a problem with that exhaust again. Do you think its possible if they make that collector with a garret flange on it?
Thank you
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Old 01-01-2007, 05:30 PM
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when you say garret are we talking T4 vs the existing T3 then yes mine is a T4
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Current project 73 914-6 Gt project rusteration 2.4

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Old 01-01-2007, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mb911
bill that sounds like a goo deal maybe we can plan a day or 2 around it .. Email me when your ready @ ben@mkexhaust.com and finally here is the pic
Ok, I sent you an email as to make sure we have all that we need when I get there. That sure looks sweet, I'd like to use that on my car too if possible. That looks solid!
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Old 01-01-2007, 06:03 PM
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Yes t4 flanged, how much?
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Old 01-01-2007, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 930gt-40r
Yes t4 flanged, how much?
Don't know yet. I think the y was about 250 from ssi and then to cut and weld on a new stainless T4 flange is probably another 100 bucks but those are not firm I need to find out
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Current project 73 914-6 Gt project rusteration 2.4

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Old 01-02-2007, 04:47 AM
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Thank you for sharing that with me, if you could get me anymore info on the t4 flange I would be appreciative. now do they weld the flange on or do the just give you the Y pipe with the flange.
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Old 01-02-2007, 11:38 AM
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it comes with just the kkk/T3 flange on there so I cut them off and weld on a 321 1/2 inch stainless one on. it take s a bit of time to get it all right but the nice thing is that the casting is 347 so it welds awesome
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Current project 73 914-6 Gt project rusteration 2.4

*Reproduction 914-6 oil tank source* 2623647426
Old 01-02-2007, 12:06 PM
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Can you show the other side of that Y piece so that I can see the hole where the wastegate pipe would wled up.....it appears from the picture that small hole is for an O2 sensor?
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Old 01-02-2007, 12:24 PM
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I asked the question before on the Renn forum if there was any data on the cracks in headers on turbo bracket supported headers/turbos and the non supported ones. I am talking about the turbo bracket that a lot of people leave off when they replace their turbos. I know I had to cut and reweld mine when I went to a K27 but I still put it back on. I don't think that the two straps around the muf are enough to stabilize the turbo and headers but there doesen't seem to be any data on it.
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Old 01-02-2007, 02:48 PM
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I meant to take a picture for you today, but I was being an idito and flooded it. I had to go to work so I didn't have time to mess with it. I have a bracket that bolts to the turbo.

Bill
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Old 01-02-2007, 02:51 PM
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You know not sure if an o2 should go in there but it would fit
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Current project 73 914-6 Gt project rusteration 2.4

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Old 01-02-2007, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mb911
it comes with just the kkk/T3 flange on there so I cut them off and weld on a 321 1/2 inch stainless one on. it take s a bit of time to get it all right but the nice thing is that the casting is 347 so it welds awesome
I wanted to ask you, do the GT-35r garrets use T-3 flanges? If so I may just scoop up a 35 instead of the 40 because I have been thinking the 40R is overkill, for my purposes a 35 should do just fine. If the 35-r uses T-3 a flange, I wouldnt have to have anyone weld it up. But going back to the flange, I bet it would weld real nice as it is high quality
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Old 01-02-2007, 04:55 PM
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930gt-40r:

Come on, the 9ff is running two gt35's! Surely you can spin one
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Old 01-02-2007, 05:38 PM
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Ha ha ha, I know, but that is making more power than I would even know what to do with. A 40r is big and I just dont think that I need that much air, I didnt have the ports opened up that much that it would constitute something as big as a 40.
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Old 01-02-2007, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 911rudy
I asked the question before on the Renn forum if there was any data on the cracks in headers on turbo bracket supported headers/turbos and the non supported ones. I am talking about the turbo bracket that a lot of people leave off when they replace their turbos. I know I had to cut and reweld mine when I went to a K27 but I still put it back on. I don't think that the two straps around the muf are enough to stabilize the turbo and headers but there doesen't seem to be any data on it.
Hi Rudy,

I made a deliberate decision to not use the support bracket as you mentioned. This was with B & B headers and a fabricated muffler, a bullet type can with a turnout. There was no muffler support bracket of any type either. I never had any issues with cracks or failures related to the eccentric load of the muffler, or the load of the turbo itself, in 5 years of extremely hard track use on two sets of headers. Of course my experience may not be the rule. The weight of the muffler assembly is probably a big factor.

My thought process was that unless the bracket fitment was extremely precise, the bracket would actually be introducing stresses into the header assembly that weren't present to begin with, potentially contributing to the genesis of fractures. In addition, a bracket bolted to the crossmember from the turbo will not allow any movement that may be wanted by the header assembly as it grows and shrinks with heating and cooling.

This is not to say that cracks did not develop, as all B & B and GHL headers will crack eventually, usually in the welds or proximal to the welds in the collector area. Regular maintenence of removing the system on a semi-annual to annual basis depending upon severity of use is critical to prevent gross failures and foreign object damage (FOD) to the compressor wheel through repair of small developing cracks. Many times these cracks aren't readily visible while the headers are cool to the touch, but when the material is very carefully heated to a simulated operating temperature the appearance of small cracks is enhanced, aiding prophylactic weld repairs, not to mention you can see the spiders web appearance on the tubing itself which is quite dramatic.

Others have used/considered using coating processes, I assume to manage thermal issues or for aesthetic reasons, but I would strenuously recommend against this as there is no way to debride the base material sufficiently of the coating media in order to be able to make a functionally sound weld repair when the time comes.

Lastly, many people don't recognize that these headers are actually a consumable item, and should be replaced on an given interval depending upon use. It's not unreasonable to expect to install a new set of headers every other season, if the car is a dedicated race or track day car and sees more than a few events per season.
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Old 01-03-2007, 08:12 AM
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Randy,
I understand what you are saying but the bracket has a bias in it when it leaves the factory as anyone who has tried to re-install it on a stock car knows . It is not like Porsche to add a bracket that doesn't do anything. I can see in your case where you have very little weight on the turbo exhaust leg that there would not be much leverage from a big muf/tailpipe to apply a force to the turbo flange area. There is also the gyroscopic force from the turbo spinning at 25,000 plus rpm. I agree that headers are consumables and should be replaced as such but cracks are another issue. Your reply is another piece of the puzzle concerning cracks and if we all respond with each of our experiences with and without the bracket, we might be able to come up with some useful info on header cracks.
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Old 01-03-2007, 08:29 AM
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