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I'm sure a lot of you have already read this, but I did my own oil testing, since I was tired of all the BS. Long story short, I'll keep using m1.

http://www.LNengineering.com/oil.html

Also, there was a recent amsoil motorcycle oil study, and m1 just narrowly was beat out by the amsoil product. They were very extensive and tested many of the oils I also tested, and I was damn suprised to find how poorly RP performed - it was right in the middle of the pack.

They also tested both 10w40 and 20w50 viscosities, to cover their bases.

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf

Regardless of the fact that it is published by amsoil, it's valid for comparison and the results were verified by a independent 3rd party. It's a must read.
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Old 01-22-2007, 06:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #41 (permalink)
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I will quietly repeat my self has anybody here ever actually seen an oil related failure?
Old 01-22-2007, 08:01 AM
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I did on a 2.3L type 4, but granted I was running pauter roller rockers, which are notorious for not oiling the valvetrain on street (low rpm) engines - I was running Royal Purple at the time. On disassembly, the engine was worse for wear, especially the bearings. About the only thing that looked good were the cylinders, which went onto another engine. I did loose a piston from the valve going through it though.. There must have been alot of crap floating about from the guides wearing prematurely to have killed the engine in less than 3000 mi. I have also seen more than one engine running RP (granted they were very high strung engines) with high wear metals.

In RP's defense, on another engine I do have to admit that the RP did maintain a high TBN and anti-wear additive levels after sustained high oil temperatures over thousands of miles (stock oil cooler was bypassing, causing oil temperatures to sit between 210-240F, depending on the temperature out).
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Old 01-22-2007, 08:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #43 (permalink)
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Thanks man,
I cant say I have ever had any oil related failures on my drag bike or drag cars. I am certain argument can be made about longevity etc. but it seems if we stay within the manufacturers recs then most are ok......
I will say when i did tear down old mopar engines for friends etc i did see lots of ash/sludge from guys using... i think quaker state.....

I use RP on my car now but have been warned by Edhughes that the 40 weight im using isnt enough during the summers.
Old 01-22-2007, 08:33 AM
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I was running Racing 41, which is 7w40 on the type 4 that went kaput, but it died in sub-freezing temperatures in the middle of TX in the winter.
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Old 01-22-2007, 08:36 AM
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The pennzoil and quaker state oils I tested had a difinitive 'burnt' smell a.k.a. recycled base stock, so the sludge comment doens't suprise me there.
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Old 01-22-2007, 08:37 AM
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high valve spring pressures?
Old 01-22-2007, 08:38 AM
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Nothing personal, but I'd prefer to back up the oil performance benchmark a little from an obvious failure. I think it's safe to assume that most of the people subscribed to this particular forum tend to push their equipment a little harder than your garden variety daily driver. In that case, there may be a basis for drawing distinctions between the performance criteria of the various products marketed towards that audience, who have large sums "invested" in a highly stressed engine. When a person has an expectation of engine life counted in hours, not miles, any incremental extension of that service life by whatever means possible is a significant financial return.

Real world test results are invaluable, relative to the usual internet forum conjecture, so thanks for that Charles. FWIW, can you add anything to the discussion relative to the somewhat recent changes in formulations (mandated by EPA?) across the board in anti-wear agents like zinc, and other agents?
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Old 01-22-2007, 08:47 AM
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It's all on the link to the oil article on my website. It appears that m1 15w50 hasn't changed much from what was sold over 10 years ago, in my testing. I also tested some oil school kendall gt-1 from the 70s, and the levels of Zn and P are pretty much the same as what they put in m1 0w40 and 15w50 (as well as m1 20w50 vtwin m/c).

And on my type 4, I was running single hd springs roughly the same as stock. The factory rocker arms have little galleys in them that are force fed oil through the lifters and pushrods to the rocker arms, that oil the valve stem, face, spring, and guide. At high rpms, there is enough oil in the head to lubricate with the pauters, but at low rpms I've heard of people who could hear the valve train squeek from lack of lubrication.
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Last edited by cnavarro; 01-22-2007 at 08:52 AM..
Old 01-22-2007, 08:50 AM
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By starting this thread I was basically seeing if 'a better synthetic oil was out' there - objectively 'better' than Mobil 1.

Would you generally agree that Redline synthetic is an all around 'better choice' than Mobil 1?
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Old 01-22-2007, 08:53 AM
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I can't say since I didn't test all of redline's product. I do have to say that the only fuel injection system cleaner I will use is redline's (same goes for their lead substitute). I also love their cv-2 grease. Can't say that I have had the best results with their gear lube, but that's just me. I have found that my gearboxes feel better with Mobilube SHC, which I can get easy and cheap next door at the big rig repair shop.
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Old 01-22-2007, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by cnavarro
It's all on the link to the oil article on my website. It appears that m1 15w50 hasn't changed much from what was sold over 10 years ago, in my testing. I also tested some oil school kendall gt-1 from the 70s, and the levels of Zn and P are pretty much the same as what they put in m1 0w40 and 15w50 (as well as m1 20w50 vtwin m/c).
Charles, I thought that Mobil is phasing out 15w50?

It seems that you can only get 0w40 / 5w50 now at the major stores?
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Old 01-22-2007, 09:16 AM
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I can still get 15w50 everywhere around me; I have not seen the 5w50 yet.
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Old 01-22-2007, 09:35 AM
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I didn't find it easy to get M1 15w50, I would think it is not very popular for people to stock it. I guess I could always mail order it from somewhere.
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Old 01-22-2007, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Craig911
By starting this thread I was basically seeing if 'a better synthetic oil was out' there - objectively 'better' than Mobil 1.

Would you generally agree that Redline synthetic is an all around 'better choice' than Mobil 1?
I would. But i have no quantifiable data to support my whim
Old 01-22-2007, 01:52 PM
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If Porsche use Mobil 1 as their factory fill, does'nt that say enough. I doubt they'd use it without thorough testing.
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Old 01-22-2007, 06:05 PM
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Being devil's advocate, mobil probably pays for that distinction. I'd be curious to know for sure. Like I already said, I will personally use m1.
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Old 01-22-2007, 06:12 PM
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As am I.
Changed often, it should be fine. But it does appear that Redline synthetic is a genuinely solid alternative to Mobil 1.
At more than double the price...
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Old 01-22-2007, 07:24 PM
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Heres's another viewpoint. Seems to be Amsoil instigated but looks to be objective: http://www.zag.si/~jank/public/bmw/oil_bible.pdf

Will Ferch brought this site to our attention a while ago, then it disappeared; now back online.

Pay attention to the four ball (friction/wear tests) , cold cranking wear and flash/fire point test scores.
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Last edited by RickM; 01-22-2007 at 07:58 PM..
Old 01-22-2007, 07:55 PM
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Up here I can get Redline for close to Mobil 1 pricing. Not the same, but not double either. I use Redline gear lube in my 951 and love it there, but I change my oil so often that I haven't used Redline in the motor.

Just a question.... are the top Synthetics worth using if your change your oil every 2K?? Oil is cheap, motors expensive, I change my oil/filter often.....

Cheers
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Old 01-22-2007, 10:18 PM
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