Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog Tech Info Tech Forums
 
  Search our site:    
 Cart  | Project List | Order Status | Help    



Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
john walker's workshop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: seattle wa usa 206.789.6800
Posts: 15,920
red hot headers

goingsuperfast stainless headers, no exchangers. man, you wouldn't want to use these on a street car, would you? they're red at idle, brighter at higher revs. probably bake the engine as well as set any close debris/grass on fire, not to mention if any oil dripped on them. poof, goodbye 930. anyone using them on the street?
__________________
www.johnwalkersworkshop.com 206 789 6800
7613 greenwood ave n seattle wa 98103
Old 02-06-2007, 05:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
WydRyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,563
John, I'm running those on my daily driver... no such issues on this end. If you're seeing glowing headers even at idle, then EGT's must be way over the top... what's the AFR like on the motor? Aren't high EGT's directly related to A/F ratio?

As I said, I have no such issues with mine... very pleased so far.
__________________
Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 02-06-2007, 05:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
john walker's workshop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: seattle wa usa 206.789.6800
Posts: 15,920
the original factory exchangers, which are stainless, although a different grade i'm sure, did not get red. that's what bugs me. CO is 4% at idle. AFR unknown at this time. no dyno close by. i just spoke to alfred, who sells them, and he said that after a few heat cycles, they won't get red anymore. we'll see i guess. hate to waste all the installation effort and put the stockers back on.
__________________
www.johnwalkersworkshop.com 206 789 6800
7613 greenwood ave n seattle wa 98103
Old 02-06-2007, 06:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
WydRyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,563
Interesting, John. As I said, no such issues with mine and I've now had them on the car for ~4 months... car runs/performs great... I'm just battling with an overly rich issue right now, but I'm pretty sure that's an EFI related issue (e.g: AFM gone bad... AGAIN).

Headers glow red for only one reason, there’s fuel burning inside. The two main reasons are a rich mixture and late ignition timing - which doesn’t give the fuel enough time to burn inside the combustion chamber.

Well, there IS another reason why they glow... after you've just caned the crap out of the turbo
__________________
Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition

Last edited by WydRyd; 02-06-2007 at 06:36 PM..
Old 02-06-2007, 06:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Terre Haute, IN
Posts: 2,763
Send a message via Yahoo to Lukesportsman
I'm not sure how an exhaust header could influence the EGT's beyond a leak. Certainly, you can add coating inside or out, but 304, 321 or 3XX are all going to radiate similar temperatures whether not the color they radiate is the same or different. 421 Pontiacs had aluminum manifolds for drag racing.....they are going to glow and melt much sooner, but not necessarily get any hotter than a set of Iconel headers.

Though I don't own a set of these headers, I would just check a few other things before I threw the headers under the carpet. Take surface temp or EGT and see where your really at...I don't know if color emmited is reflective or diagnostic. Certainly check timing and AFR's as Merv as suggested. You might have been on the fence before. You obviously/probably changed to headers for some reason. Probably to change/increase air flow...therefore your engine has a different set of parameters. Just my .02
__________________
Luke S.
72 RS spirit 2.7mfi, 73 3.2 Hotrod on steelies, 76 993 3.3efi TT, 86 trackrat, 91 C4s widebody,02 OLA winning 6GT2, 07 997TT, 70 914 v8

http://www.hubgarage.com/mygarage/LukeSportsman
Old 02-06-2007, 07:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 12,690
Garage
John - a freind of mine just went through that exact scenario whith a set of B&B headers. He posted the delima on Rennlist.
The car ran perfectly with a Euro exhaust. Nothing was changed but headers added.
At idle the headers would glow red. After much agony I suggested that the header material may be the culprit (thin tubing or metalergy problem) and the way to find out is by reading surface temperature. He bought a pyrometer and found the surface temperatures were slightly elevated, but not enough that it should cause the headers to glow.

Very long story short, the CO was in spec but the A/F ratio was not perfect. By not perfect I mean 0.5% off at idle. He retarded the cams, cleaned the fuelhead, and adjusted the WUR. Bingo - problem solved.

The point of all that is that in this particular case the header design exposed a "problem" with the engine tuning that manifested itself in a very odd way. The timing events combined with a slightly rich A/F ratio and new plumbing lit 'er up cherry red under moderately high surface temperature readings.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8

Last edited by RarlyL8; 02-06-2007 at 08:57 PM..
Old 02-06-2007, 08:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Now Available for Ordering:   101 Projects For Your BMW 3 Series 1982-2000  [more info]
Registered User
 
beepbeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,464
Yeah, what Brian said. Stock exchangers are continuosly cooled by air and probably made of thicker gauge metal.

BB's (especially those w/o heater boxes) will be more glow-prone in case there is slight missadjustment in AFR and ignition. I suggest leaning the mixture and advancing ignition slightly at idle.

There is probably lot's of unburned fuel that is continuously combusted in the tubing.
__________________
Thank you for your time,
Old 02-06-2007, 11:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Porschefile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 150
As others mentioned, I'd suggest checking your timing.
__________________
'87 3.2 Carrera - 3.4l, Billet Design equal length headers & full bay IC, 60-1 T4 .81a/r, Kinesis Supercup replicas, Big Reds at all 4, 964 body conversion, 964 Turbo S rear spoiler
Old 02-07-2007, 10:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Near Atlanta
Posts: 128
I had the same thing and it turned out to be leaks around the flanges. Someone had replaced the studs with ones which had longer no thread zones. These worked fine for stock exhaust but did not allow me to tighten them enough to stop air leaks into the headers because the headers did not have as thick flanges as the OEM . If you did not have a problem before, then SS headers will not glow without some other problem. It's got to be an air leak. For insurance, put a washer on each stud, after the flange and then re-torque them to spec. Also look at the areas around the flanges and see if there is any exhaust blackening. If there is then that is the leak. Good luck.
__________________
911rudy

Last edited by 911rudy; 02-07-2007 at 10:51 PM..
Old 02-07-2007, 10:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
A fellow Pelacanite
 
NathanUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
Garage
Hi Rudy. I noticed that too about the stock studs on my car when I fitted my GHL's. I actually ran a die on the threads and cut them higher !
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 02-08-2007, 01:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Near Atlanta
Posts: 128
Nathan,
I was going to do that but already had everything in place. I asked Stephen at AI if using washers on the top of the flange was ok and he said that it shouldn't make any difference. I also used the metal gaskets that have a raised area to transition the port to the header more smoothly.
__________________
911rudy
Old 02-08-2007, 01:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
A fellow Pelacanite
 
NathanUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
Garage
I used a washer under each nut as well.
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 02-08-2007, 01:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
930turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Valrico Florida
Posts: 199
Start with a simple test of your distributor mechanical advance. Be sure it's not hanging up. Late timing is usually the culpret on illuminated headers. I've experienced this on cars and motorcycles.
__________________
'77 930 turbo Garretson I/C 1 BAR spring, (2) '82 Triumph Bonneville Royal Wedding Edition
Past rides: '74 914 1.9 liter twin plugged track car, '83 928S, '87 924S, '75 911S w '78 ROW 3.0, '72 911T, '70 911T and various other insignificant domestic examples. Happiness is a grey tailpipe! Turbo lag......it's worth the wait!
Old 02-09-2007, 03:09 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Up North
Posts: 1,431
I second late timing... the 1st week after I EFI-ed the car, I retard the timing quite a bit just to be sure she won't knock. The end result was glowing headers. In fact, the exhaust temp was so hot that I can't even put my hand in front of the tail pipe for more than 2 seconds !
__________________
87 930 K27HFS/B&B/Twin-Plug... Megasquirted
Old 02-09-2007, 09:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:13 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2016 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.