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Gotta Jibboo
 
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I agree Craig, I have done some searches and read what you have said in the past. I just don't want to re-ground the overboost protection.

I haven't ever messed with the Tial, how hard is it to replace the spring on the wg?

Bill
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2003 996TT
1992 964 Turbo (sold) Holy crap are these expensive now!
1986 911 Cabriolet (sold)

I don't know why I do the hillbilly things I do.
Old 02-11-2007, 07:25 PM
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Me like track days
 
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Takes a hard push down to hold it together, but overall not bad at all -
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"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 02-11-2007, 08:11 PM
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tracy that sounds good. I had the fuel pump kill disabled. i'm not sure if the boost levels off at 1.2. I just back off the pedal. I know the waste gate is opening as I can hear it.

would cutting off the wate gate pipe and enlarging it fix my problem or should I start with other simpler fixes? also, how would I know if its a 1.2 spring

lewis
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76 930, copper bronze, mostly restored. ghl, k27,tial, big yellows, garretson i/c, for sale
Old 02-12-2007, 04:15 AM
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did you guys forget me?

lewis
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76 930, copper bronze, mostly restored. ghl, k27,tial, big yellows, garretson i/c, for sale
Old 02-21-2007, 05:16 PM
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As many have said - GHL exhaust, K27 and stock engine will result in "overboost" - I used a Tial with 0.6 bar spring and I see 0.9 bar.
I can only imagine what a 1 bar spring will do.

From what I heard, the latest GHL had fixed the problem by enlarging the WG pipe.
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Old 02-22-2007, 09:45 AM
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I installed those two little goodies after replacing the warn out 3ldz with a K27 with 1 bar spring and upgrading to a GHL exhaust. The internals are 3.0 and just rebuilt (maybe 30 miles). the problem I have is over boost. I am hitting 1.2 bar almost immediately. I tested this with a manual gauge sitting on my lap. I was told to install the .8 bar spring but I dont think thatg will sove my problem. I think the waste gate will still open before I hit wide open throttle.
Lewis, spring numbers aside, you installed a heavier spring in your wastegate and you are now experiencing higher boost than desired. Perhaps reverting back to your stock wastegate spring will reduce your over-boost problem. Also, it appears from the last two sentences of your first post, that you may be unclear on how the wastegate functions. In order to reduce the amount of boost you are getting, you need a spring which *will open* at lower load levels.

Can you confirm that your friend who helped rebuild your wastegate did not put a plug in the threaded vent hole on the top of the aluminum wastegate cap. This must be vented to atmosphere. If plugged, this could cause the type of symptoms you have.

Hope this helps.
Jim
Old 02-22-2007, 11:33 AM
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Porsche Crest Beautiful Car!

Lewis,

1st, I really like the way your 930 came out. I really love that color and hope you show some interior shots as well. You should be very proud.

I can put my two cents in, with my background in the Petro-Chem Industry. 1st, the factory waste-gate in question is nothing more than a PRV Pressure Relief Valve. This valve is designed to release at a set pressure or psi. In the case of the factory wastegate, the point of release is determined by the strength of a spring.

A factory waste gate spring is set for.8 bar. One can purchase heavier springs, which require more psi to make the waste gate release. As a result, an increase in forced induction will take place. As we all know, unless an engine is properly designed for increased boost, it is best to stay with a factory setting of .8 bar

If the openning of a factory waste gate at full release is larger that any of the GHL exhaust system....I would be shocked. That would be the only way logically that header system would be at fault. An outlet is only as efficient as the inlet.

With your specs described....your problem resides within your PRV. I would install factory .8 bar spring and test that under .8bar psi...the diaphram not only opens...but opens fully.

Lastly...having owned my 930 for more than 8 years and clocking over 120K miles myself, I have found the best way to make that car FAST...is not by focusing on more horsepower....but by making the car light. I have dropped close to 300lbs off my car. Think of how much more horsepower it takes to propel an additional 300lbs. See pic of what I've done. BTW, I'm still running a factory I/C under the duck-tail.





I really hope you can solve your problem soon.

All the best Lewis,

Paul
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Last edited by PAUL RODELO; 02-22-2007 at 11:46 PM..
Old 02-22-2007, 11:42 PM
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Gotta Jibboo
 
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Lewis, I am having the same problem as you, so I ordered new overboost solenoid and a lighter spring for my Tial. I will let you know what I find out as well.

Bill
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1992 964 Turbo (sold) Holy crap are these expensive now!
1986 911 Cabriolet (sold)

I don't know why I do the hillbilly things I do.
Old 02-23-2007, 10:12 AM
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Thanks Paul, and BTW, your car looks great too. As for my interior, no pics!! It is still the stock 1976 european plaid. I love it but it needs to be cleaned really bad. I will some day redo the interior but I'm hoping to keep the plaid seats. love em or hate em.

I Am sure the waste gate vent is not plugged! I will order a .8 spring and see what happens. I just want it to perform like the 3ldz did. That was awesome but it had the diverter valve set up then as well.

lewis
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76 930, copper bronze, mostly restored. ghl, k27,tial, big yellows, garretson i/c, for sale
Old 02-23-2007, 04:12 PM
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Hi Lewis, sorry I haven't replied sooner. I still believe the culpret is the wastegate. As indicated in the thread above, the opening cross-section in the WG @ full open should still be less than the cross-section of the WG pipe unless it's about 3/4" diameter, which we know it isn't. Hold off on ordering the OEM .8 spring, I have one. I'll be at the Dave White swap meet in Tampa March 10th. We could talk in person if you also plan to attend. I'll bring the spring with me. Tracy
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Old 02-24-2007, 06:52 PM
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Sorry I missed you at the swap meet tracy. I'm building a house and had things going on. It looks like my waste gate is SHOT!!! I need a new one. Is the Tial a direct bolt on? if so, where can I get it and what should I expect to pay for it?

I took my girl (the car) for an easy ride and barely made it home. my mechanic tested the w.g. and said it was bad. this after rebuilding it last year. The car was down on power as well. it would hardly idle and bucked horribly if the accel pedal was pushed down too far. could only manage 40-45 mph coming home. On my cool down, I heard a strange noise that sounded like a bad fuel pump. Electric sounding at the least. any thoughts?
lewis
Old 03-20-2007, 06:37 PM
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Are you running a boost controller?.
I recently fitted one at the same time as an imagineauto stage 2 kit.
The car was overboosting as you describe, and it turned out to be something pretty simple. There are two settings on the controller, one for external wastegate, and one for internal.
I had switched over to the correct setting, but hadn't realised that this must be done with the unit wired in and the ignition on.
Good luck with finding the problem.


Cheers.
Dave.
Old 03-20-2007, 10:09 PM
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Re: Beautiful Car!

Quote:
Originally posted by PAUL RODELO
Lewis,
I have dropped close to 300lbs off my car. Think of how much more horsepower it takes to propel an additional 300lbs. See pic of what I've done. BTW, I'm still running a factory I/C under the duck-tail.

Paul, your car is beautiful! Can you share what you did to drop 300 pounds?

Whale Tail is obvious, what else?

Thanks,

-TT
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Old 03-22-2007, 07:55 AM
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no boost controller. still need tial info


thanks

lewis

dave, how far are you from burton upon trent?
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Old 03-22-2007, 09:34 AM
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Porsche Crest How to drop 300lbs off factory 930!

Texas Turbo,

Thank you for the compliment on the car!
Here is a list off the top of my head!
Items removed.
Whale Tail, Decklid, Lip
(Replaced w/fiberglass duck tail)
Rear bumper w/molding
Rear bumper/rocker extension
Rear bumper 5mph shocks
Rear US bumper guards
Rear Valance
(Replaced w/fiberglass IROC/RSR rear bumper with SS heat shield)
Front bumper w/molding
Front bumper 5mph shocks
Front bumper/rocker extensions
Front fog lamps, mounting and wiring
Front valance
Front spoiler lip
(Replaced w/fiberglass IROC/RSR front bumper
Side rockers w/molding
930S Fender Oil cooler w/elec fan
Oil cooler mount
(Replaced w/RSR front Oil Cooler
A/C Condensor on Whale Tail
A/C Condensor behind spoiler
A/C Condensor safety/guard bar
A/C Compressor
A/C Compressor mount
A/C hard and flex lines from front to rear.
A/C Blower
Factory front seats
Factroy front belts w/retractors
Factory rear seats
Factory rear belts w/retractors
(Replaced w/Recaro SRD's)
(Replaced w/Schroth 5 pt harnesses)
Center Console
Factory center auto heating system
(Back dated to early manual heating control)
Factory Steering Wheel
(Replaced w/Protipo)
Factory carpet front and rear
Factory carpet mats front and rear
RS Lt Wt carpet kit front and rear including rear deck
Rear deck with 4" X 6" speakers.
Factory door panels with 6" speakers
Factory door handles
Factory door pockets and tops
(Replaced with RS door panels)
Off the top of my head...that is what I could remember removing.
Additional items while at the track would be
Inflateable tire
Air Compressor
Jack

Potential Wt loss can be accomplished by
Fiberglass hood

So....that is how I did it.
The key thing is comfortable seats.

Best of luck.
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Old 03-22-2007, 10:34 PM
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Lewis......
I live 180 miles from Burton Upon Trent up in the frozen North of England.

Cheers.

Dave.
Old 03-23-2007, 05:15 AM
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OFF THE BOOST PIPE NOW...
 
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A couple of thoughts.

First, the newer turbos spool up too fast for GHL's and B&B's wastegate pipe to handle. Unless you ask for the larger W/G pipe, I don't think they come standard. You can retrofit one on there though. It's a good idea.

Second, since the GHL's and B&B's flow a lot better, you need a lower bar spring. I was using a .8 bar spring to get 1 bar (as read on my mech gauge).
Old 03-25-2007, 05:17 PM
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thanks Rocket. My car is curently in the shop. The mechanic tells me that the stock w.g. is bad. ive been trying to get info on the Tial w.g. like where to buy and what I can expect to pay for it but no infoas of yet. I'm currently building a house so the w.g. isnt at the top of my list right now


lewis
Old 03-26-2007, 05:39 PM
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The B&B + Tial will still overboost even at a constant RPM and boost level.
I may be totally wrong, but I thought they now all have the large diameter WG pipes?
The stock WG will usually not overboost with a B&B - something about a Tial and B&B combination.
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"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 03-26-2007, 07:32 PM
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You can buy the correct Tial from Imagine Auto.

www.imagineauto.com
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
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1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
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Last edited by NathanUK; 03-27-2007 at 01:52 PM..
Old 03-27-2007, 01:37 PM
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