Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog Tech Info Tech Forums
 
  Search our site:    
 Cart  | Project List | Order Status | Help    



Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
kellcats521's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Atlanta Metro
Posts: 219
Cam choices

I am keeping CIS on my 87 930, but I will ramp things up a bit. It has a K27 and a bigger intercooler is in route. I am considering a cam upgrade, either SC's or 964s. A local 'expert' recommends the 964s over the SC's - any other good choices out there? Also, with the 964, did these come with the cam drive already on the driver's side?

Thanks,

Pat
87 930 slant
Old 02-14-2007, 11:26 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,152
Dunno about the cam drive, but 964 cams in my 930 work reeeeealllly well.
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 02-14-2007, 11:30 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
kellcats521's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Atlanta Metro
Posts: 219
Quote:
Originally posted by Craig911
Dunno about the cam drive, but 964 cams in my 930 work reeeeealllly well.
Do you have the factory turbo scavage/return pump? If so, it's driven off of the driver's side cam, but most cam grinders can add that drive to any set of cams. I wanted to know because there is a Porsche wrecker within driving distance where I know I could scrounge up a pair of cams that I could physically check/measure before I took them. But, if I have to send them out to be modified anyway, I might as well have webcams or Dougherty make a set with the drive on them.

I have also heard the same WRT the 964 - supposedly a great grind for a CIS turbo with a definite power increase and no loss in drivability, unlike the Gruppe B which I understand is really bad at low rpms.
Old 02-14-2007, 11:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,152
It does.
My 930 is really flexible - it truly does not care what rpm it is at...
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 02-14-2007, 02:43 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
lite75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellingham WA
Posts: 703
Garage
I'd take them over the SC's also. Work great with a CIS build.
__________________
75 930, 76 930, 83 SC EFI turbo
Old 02-14-2007, 03:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Terre Haute, IN
Posts: 2,763
Send a message via Yahoo to Lukesportsman
Do not read sarcasm. What's wrong with the Carrera cams in this application? Everyone talks about the SC , SC+ or 964 cams with CIS. This is just curosity since I'm going EFI.
__________________
Luke S.
72 RS spirit 2.7mfi, 73 3.2 Hotrod on steelies, 76 993 3.3efi TT, 86 trackrat, 91 C4s widebody,02 OLA winning 6GT2, 07 997TT, 70 914 v8

http://www.hubgarage.com/mygarage/LukeSportsman
Old 02-15-2007, 03:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
A fellow Pelacanite
 
NathanUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
Garage
By SC+ do you mean what seems to be known as the SC330 cams ?
The SC330 is more aggressive than the SC but milder than the 964.
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 02-15-2007, 03:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Terre Haute, IN
Posts: 2,763
Send a message via Yahoo to Lukesportsman
Nathan, yeah I meant the SC330 cam thanks. I was just wondering why the 3.2 Carrera seems to fall out of favor in this conversation. Is it too similar to others or is it a bad choice?

After some discussion with Webcam, I feel the 20/21 wouldn't be all bad for a forced induction application too.
__________________
Luke S.
72 RS spirit 2.7mfi, 73 3.2 Hotrod on steelies, 76 993 3.3efi TT, 86 trackrat, 91 C4s widebody,02 OLA winning 6GT2, 07 997TT, 70 914 v8

http://www.hubgarage.com/mygarage/LukeSportsman
Old 02-15-2007, 03:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
WydRyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,563
I run the GT2-EVO CAMs in my motor, but it's not CIS. Many people have been happy with the 964 CAMs.

Luke's right, why doesn't anyone like the Carrera CAMs in CIS turbos?
__________________
Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 02-15-2007, 03:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Terre Haute, IN
Posts: 2,763
Send a message via Yahoo to Lukesportsman
Merv,

Since I've now purchased the same P&C's as you along with the 3.2 longblock, I've got a few questions. Did you continue to run the C2 turbo head gaskets after switching to the low compression pistons? I thought I heard somewhere that you don't have to with the 3.2 heads?

Did you have any cam/piston clearance issues with the 965 pistons? Do you know what timing you set the GT2 cams at?

Thanks
__________________
Luke S.
72 RS spirit 2.7mfi, 73 3.2 Hotrod on steelies, 76 993 3.3efi TT, 86 trackrat, 91 C4s widebody,02 OLA winning 6GT2, 07 997TT, 70 914 v8

http://www.hubgarage.com/mygarage/LukeSportsman
Old 02-15-2007, 03:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 12,690
Garage
A buddy of mine ran through several cams in several weeks trying to find the "perfect" CIS combo. He started out with ANDIAL Group Bs, then tried 964s, then SC330s. At the end he stated SC cams were his favorite for the application. Tons of torque and no lag with his setup.

What you choose will depend upon the other components and what you want out of your engine.

I am running SC cams with a K27-7200. Very satisfied, but then again I didn't spend the money and time to do what my buddy did.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-15-2007, 06:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Gotta Jibboo
 
BSiple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Fort Collins Colorado
Posts: 4,430
Garage
Send a message via AIM to BSiple
I also have SC cam's in mine.

Bill
__________________
2003 996TT
1992 964 Turbo (sold) Holy crap are these expensive now!
1986 911 Cabriolet (sold)

I don't know why I do the hillbilly things I do.
Old 02-15-2007, 09:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Now Available for Ordering:   101 Projects For Your BMW 3 Series 1982-2000  [more info]
Registered User
 
WydRyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,563
Quote:
Originally posted by Lukesportsman
Merv,

Since I've now purchased the same P&C's as you along with the 3.2 longblock, I've got a few questions. Did you continue to run the C2 turbo head gaskets after switching to the low compression pistons? I thought I heard somewhere that you don't have to with the 3.2 heads?

Did you have any cam/piston clearance issues with the 965 pistons? Do you know what timing you set the GT2 cams at?

Thanks
Hi Luke. Yes, I run the C2T head gaskets with the 97mm P&C's. Todd Knighton recommended them as they provide a better seal for up to ~1.4bar. Anything over that, then Nerosist rings should be used between liners/heads. The C2T head gaskets will support ~60lb/ft more torque before the heads will lift off, as opposed to not using any sealing technique. Well, that's what I learnt from Todd and I don't doubt his ability to build big power motors

Mind you, with high quality ARP fasteners, I don't think heads lifting would be an issue. I just wanted a little extra insurance as I occassionally run it up to 1.2-1.3bar.

With flame rings, the heads will crack before the actual sealing rings do That's how durable flame ringing is. You should consider it if you're planning mega-boost, like Juan Ruiz did

I can't remember what the timing was for the GT2 CAMs. The timing settings came with the CAMs and I just supplied them to the engine builder and lost track of it I'm sure Todd would have the specs as he uses those CAMs religiously.

EDIT: I also used thicker base cylinder shims and had the barrels machined down at the base to get the desired C/R, again, as per Todd's recommendations.
__________________
Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition

Last edited by WydRyd; 02-15-2007 at 09:49 PM..
Old 02-15-2007, 09:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Terre Haute, IN
Posts: 2,763
Send a message via Yahoo to Lukesportsman
Thank you for your contributions, Merv.......SORRY for the OT everyone else.
__________________
Luke S.
72 RS spirit 2.7mfi, 73 3.2 Hotrod on steelies, 76 993 3.3efi TT, 86 trackrat, 91 C4s widebody,02 OLA winning 6GT2, 07 997TT, 70 914 v8

http://www.hubgarage.com/mygarage/LukeSportsman
Old 02-16-2007, 04:45 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
A fellow Pelacanite
 
NathanUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
Garage
The carrera cams, good question. I bet Todd would know how they compare to other cams on a boosted 3.2 carrera. He might not know how they would work on a CIS car though. A cam expert should know though.

I will ask Stephen Kaspar who probably knows on his web forum. I will keep you posted if he lets me know.
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 02-16-2007, 12:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
A fellow Pelacanite
 
NathanUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
Garage
Stephen Kaspars advice about the carrera cams. The drive is for the air & oil scavenge pump.

The 3.2 carrera cam is nothing more than the SC cam. So it is nothing out of the norm really. It is a fine choice if it is something sitting on the shelf. You can have a drive put on it (normally 150.00 or so) and use it.
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 02-19-2007, 10:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Up North
Posts: 1,431
I'm with Brian - what you choose need to match with everything else that you have + what do you want the car to behave.

I heard many times that 964 cam will create longer top end power, and the GT-2 evo cam even more so; relative to the SC cam (which is the same as carrera cam).

Having said that, when mine was still CIS, I don't feel power drops off even at 6000 rpm.

Have just Megasquirted my car and kept the same cam. But haven't had a chance to really test/drive her yet - have to wait till the white stuff is gone.
__________________
87 930 K27HFS/B&B/Twin-Plug... Megasquirted
Old 02-20-2007, 05:21 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 382
I am following this cam issue for a while.

What I dont understand,
when Porsche developed the turbo,
they made extra turbo cams.
But, as few state here, the SC cams work better.

What can be the reason for Porsches decicion to build
extra turbo cams?

Further,
what I know from other aftermarket boosted cars,
the cams for unforced induction with lot overlap allow
flowtrough.
Means, a lot AF mixture is blowed through the exhaust
without any function.
Only, its changing AFR reads on the Lambda sensors.

As I respect this boards acknowledgement,
I guess you have checked for all that above.

But maybe someone can explain me?

Falk
__________________
87 930 bblk/blk
88 930 targa blk
88 3.6 white/blk
Old 02-20-2007, 07:06 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Forced Induction Junkie
 
WERK I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,082
Garage
Porsche introduced the 3.3l turbo cams in that profile because of the inherent problems they had with turbo lag. The cams had lower lift to increase the port velocity at lower RPM's to improve torque.
Just like normally aspirated engines, you must match your cams to your induction system, namely the turbocharger.
Turbo cams have very low overlap numbers. You will lose a lot of potential HP by installing high overlap camshafts, Definitely a no, no.
__________________
Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, 8:41 R&P
Old 02-20-2007, 07:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
930gt-40r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Orange, CT
Posts: 2,059
Overlap on a turbo car is bad unless it has varieble cam timing. I know this dont apply to us, over lap spools the turbo real quick and then through the variable timing scale it back for the mid range and top end. I wish I could own a 996/7 twin so I could put this into affect.
(Sory for the interuption, I thought that might be interesting)
Im running GT2 cams in mine, but have no experience camming Cis cars. GT-2s are nice.
__________________
Kris
86' 930/GT-40R Sold
94' Rustang GT daily
Old 02-20-2007, 02:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:12 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2016 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.