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Question Oil Pooled in Turbo

Have had starting issue with my 930 track car. It did die at idle and then refused to start back up. There was smoke when turning over before she finally fired and I drove her home (no smoking). She then died again and has not started since. I had started to the one of the CDI's could be bad

But now I came in today to find oil pool under the Turbo. When I pulled the lower hose oil ran out! Pulled the upper hose to the intercooler to look down into the Turbo and the turbo is full of oil? I did change the oil a few weeks ago but filled with the temp up. She does have a RSR front cooler and I cannot be certain the reg had opened. However, she had been cranking running without issue prior to taking her out to some back roads the other day.

Oil level does not seem to be too high and I checked the cyl and plugs and they are clean.

Turbo is farly new and the shaft seems to be tight so I am confused as to how oil got in the turbo?

Read these posts and reviewed problem with guy who knows the car but still puzzled.

I guess I will have to pull the Turbo to clean the oil out but best route or suggestions re how-what-where it got in.

Any experience or help with greatly appreciated.
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Old 02-19-2007, 08:09 PM
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There are few options on how this happened:

1. Turbo bearing seals are shot and push oil into cold housing
2. Turbo "inhaled" oil trough rebreather hose which maybe got oil that "splashed" during track driving.


The non-start part is worrysome. Why did you found oil underneath the turbo? Is there a leak? Where?
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Old 02-19-2007, 11:48 PM
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Well perhaps oil level too high and splashed. I had changed the oil and since there is a large RSR cooler in the front it may have been a factor. I thought she had gotten warm enough but maybe not.

Can the turbo prop be tight and smooth in movement and still have bad seals?

2- The leak may have been a positive as I could not figure out why she was not firing up. One, the oil was dripping from the large turbo hose (side facing the prop). That being said the hose was loose so perhaps air getting in. Second, one of the leads to the temp switch was off and I could not see it before as the hose blocked my view.

I had read that if one of the leads were off it would not crank?

Best solution re oil in the turbo? Do I have to take it off? If it splashed in should there not be be oil in the breather?
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Old 02-20-2007, 04:19 AM
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The return line is dry above the Turbo. What about the scavenge pump? Is there another failure that could force oil thrugh the seal?

Before pulling the Turbo I wanted to be certain that the problem is not somewhere else. Best suggestion to clean it out?

Any help greatly appreciated!
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Old 02-20-2007, 05:07 AM
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Could the non-start issue be caused by oil fouling of your plugs? How do they look? Is your intercooler and intake saturated with oil too???
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:10 PM
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Im thinking the oil came from the breather hose as I have seen many turbos with giant shaft play without leaks (however there is always exceptions). The non-start issue could be worsened by the intake hose being loose because an air leak there could make it harder for the motor to suck the air meter door open to let fuel in. As far as the wire being disconected, that sensor is for the the cold starts sys. but probley has little to do with the car starting and I believe this because I ran my car for years without any of it hooked up. Merv has got a point, check for fouled plugs. On to the intercooler- if it looks like the oil made it into the intercooler, make sure you hot-tank it. I have seen oiled intercoolers cause detonation on the dyno. Lastly, if it is the CDI which it somewhat sounds like; I just replaced mine with an MSD 6AL. I did this because it cost 200$ and kills the stock unit ($1700+ at porsche). If you would like tips on installing that setup let me know.
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Old 02-20-2007, 02:02 PM
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Plugs were not fouled aside from a bit of carbon and no oil in the cyl's. Does not seem to be any oil in the intercooler aside from the normal residue. I'll hook up the temp switch just to be safe but I agree the air hose being loose enough for the oil to seap strikes me as a possible culprit re the starting.

It has been suggested that I can use a airhose to blow out the bulk of the oil in the turbo and then brake cleaner to help wash out the rest then using the airhose again to blow the balance out. Anyone done this?

I am hoping that oil got in via the breather hose and that perhaps the oil level might have been a tad high from the change.

Is this an applicable theory: Perhaps if it was a bit high it sloshed into the breather upon my applying the brakes - car died, and then when she finally fired again it burned off the oil in the turbo (as there was white smoke when I was trying to start it after the stall) Then when I stopped again and the same events replayed perhaps the hose was loose enough (as oil had made the connection slippery) the engine would not start?

Can oil in the turbo effect the starting at all? If I get most of it cleaned out the turbo will burn it off correct?
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Old 02-20-2007, 04:41 PM
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Curious, how do you check the oil level? Just by the gauge, or by actually checking the dip stick whilst on a level surface with the car idling at operating temps?
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Old 02-20-2007, 04:44 PM
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Oh yes and the line dropping from the intake to the (cold side) is dry and free of oil.

If it came into the turbo via the breather hose how exactly doe it get into the turbo housing?
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Old 02-20-2007, 04:46 PM
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I cant check it right now as she wont start

However, when I refilled after the last change (which was just before the last drive) I filled with about 8 quarts ran her at idle up to temp and then added until she was between the marks. I never trust guages ever.

I have looked into the tank and the level in the tank appears to be correct. Of course the RSR front oil cooler adds question as to exactly how much is in the system. I know the oil is supposed to drain back into the tank but I did not check hoses to insure they were warm when I was topping off after the last oil change just to be certain all affected housings were being considered in tbe level.

Someone also said iit could be the scavenge pump?
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Old 02-20-2007, 04:53 PM
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The oil would go into the turbine housing by being sucked in through the house connecting to the air box. If the intake pip is clean, then its coming from through the seals. If you just did an oil change- maybe the check valve in the filter is fu#$ed up and allowing the oil to drain back down into the motor after shut down. If not that, maybe the scavenge pump is not working properly. The way the scavenge pump is set up on 930s looks as if it wer an after thought. The only thing driving the pump is two allen bolt heads that hold down the secondary air pump. Its either two or three 10 mm nuts that hold it on, try unbolting it and pulling it back to inspect.
Also, I have over filled these things before, what you did would not warrent this amount of problems, you didnt over fill it enough.
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Old 02-20-2007, 06:54 PM
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This might be an ideal opportunity to remove the turbo scavenge pump and drip tank. A few people here have ran the outlet of the turbo straight into the where the crankcase drain plug is. Replacing the plug with a fitting and connecting the hose to it.
I will do this eventually, save some weight.
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Old 02-21-2007, 08:46 AM
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New chapter: She runs! The door on the air flow meter/control was stuck closed. After I cleaned out the turbo and reassembled (after cleaning the air box and the air meter door/housing) she fired right up.

Idled perfect for a few minutes but as she warmed she died again (#^%*$. I pressed the adjusting key a bit to insure the door was not stuck and she stumbled a bit but required my holding the throttle all the way down before she fired again. After that she maintained a idle and got up to temp so I could check the oil level. Needed a quart which is what I had drained back.

Only problem now is it has trouble starting again after it gets warm/hot?

You can hear the air flow door sqealing a bit when cold trying to restart.

What causes the air meter door to stick? Solution to the warm starting issue?

Still not sure how the oil got in the turbo before? Could the stuck air meter door pull oil into the turbo?
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Old 02-21-2007, 09:59 PM
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Ah yes BTW the sensor plate/door that was stuck does not seem to be closing all the way. Should it? Should I adjust it or might it be the WUR?
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Old 02-21-2007, 10:39 PM
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I have almost the same problem...(78 3.3L Turbo)

Starting up on Saturday created huge smoke from exhaust for a few minutes. But there was no strange noises so i let her run until warm.
Then the smoking stopped. I took her for a ride and no smoking when driving, both on and off boost.
So, after parking and cooling i rised the rear end and took out the plugs to check compression , OK but noticed oil in no.6 cyl. . i double checked by removing air injection plug.... huge ammount of oil in the exhaust valve are on no 6. To much got ring or guide failure and the heads are freshly rebuild.

Removed IC and found it smeared in oil, oil in the turbo housing as well.

Not good. The engine is rebuildt after car has been sitting for 13 years. but did not rebuild the turbo since it looked OK. Well, the theory is that the seals are OK when running but letting oil trough when not running ( and i had run it a while on the starter to check compresion) and that oil in the intake manifold ran fwd and into no.6 when i raised the car. So i removed the turbo sunday and it is away for rebuild, it will be returned tomorrow.
But then the air box after the filter housing where the air mass meter sits also show alot of oil.....
This does not fit my theory, this must come from the turbo oil sump vent line.....
so what is wrong?

Could it be the scavenge pump that is failing on low rpm and that the oil is pressed trough the vent line into the air air filter box?
But why not smoking when i am driving?
Is the scavenge pump working on above idle RPM but not coping on idle? I do have a low idle (700rpm) and will adjust to 1000 when the pump is inn.

Is it necessary to clean it all up? or will it go away after a while?

Any suggestions are appreciated.
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Old 04-08-2008, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p930t View Post
I have almost the same problem...(78 3.3L Turbo)

Starting up on Saturday created huge smoke from exhaust for a few minutes. But there was no strange noises so i let her run until warm.
Then the smoking stopped. I took her for a ride and no smoking when driving, both on and off boost.
So, after parking and cooling i rised the rear end and took out the plugs to check compression , OK but noticed oil in no.6 cyl. . i double checked by removing air injection plug.... huge ammount of oil in the exhaust valve are on no 6. To much got ring or guide failure and the heads are freshly rebuild.

Removed IC and found it smeared in oil, oil in the turbo housing as well.

Not good. The engine is rebuildt after car has been sitting for 13 years. but did not rebuild the turbo since it looked OK. Well, the theory is that the seals are OK when running but letting oil trough when not running ( and i had run it a while on the starter to check compresion) and that oil in the intake manifold ran fwd and into no.6 when i raised the car. So i removed the turbo sunday and it is away for rebuild, it will be returned tomorrow.
But then the air box after the filter housing where the air mass meter sits also show alot of oil.....
This does not fit my theory, this must come from the turbo oil sump vent line.....
so what is wrong?

Could it be the scavenge pump that is failing on low rpm and that the oil is pressed trough the vent line into the air air filter box?
But why not smoking when i am driving?
Is the scavenge pump working on above idle RPM but not coping on idle? I do have a low idle (700rpm) and will adjust to 1000 when the pump is inn.

Is it necessary to clean it all up? or will it go away after a while?

Any suggestions are appreciated.
1.) As with any freshly, relatively speaking, rebuilt engine, always check your fittings as the first order of business. Check the suction side of the turbocharger sump pump. That is, check the lines from the base of the turbocharger all the way to the base of the turbo sump pump.

2. You may be flooding the turbocharger with oil. Many times people forget to put the little ball bearing back into the oil line fitting that goes from the top of the engine down to the turbocharger.

The turbocharger sump pump is not as effective at idle as it is at elevated RPM's. I always run the engine at 1500RPM for 30 seconds before turning it off just to make sure most of the oil is purged from the sump tank.

If you are sucking oil through the oil vent line off the oil tank, you will see a puff of oil smoke coming out the exhaust pipe when you lift off throttle during some spirited (but safe!!) driving.
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:24 AM
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1.) OK

2.) OK

Got the turbo back from overhauling yesterday. reported badly worn gaskets and bearings. This may cause high oil flow. I also have high oil pressure when warm and low RPM so this combined may give overflow in the turbo sump on low idle.

Running the engine on the starter only, without spark plugs, i can feel suction from the scavenging pump.

Will start in a few hours and adjust idle upp to 1000. Then i will know if this was effective.
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Old 04-09-2008, 11:10 PM
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