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Timing changes above and beyond stock settings should be checked and set on a dyno. MBT is extremely important in keeping your engine healthy. Any changes to boost levels, compression, engine operating temps etc will all factor into requisite timing levels. If your engine is stock set the timing to stock, if not tune carefully on a dyno.

As for cleaning CIS injectors, all you have to do is take them out and spray them out with carb cleaner and make sure they don't have major build up inside of them that may impede flow. CIS injectors are just nozzles with a spring and ball inside. They open when a certain pressure level is met. The pressure level is determined by the fuel distributor. The injectors are either opened or closed.
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Brett
Old 03-06-2007, 08:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #101 (permalink)
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Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
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Definitely on the timing stuff, I'd think that is good advice.


The injectors -



can have problems that home cleaning cannot solve.


A thorough cleaning - ie running at full pressure with cleaning solution for 10 minutes to an hour - may be necessary for a CIS injector.

http://www.witchhunter.com/

Even then, the injector may leak or spray too much fuel after the cleanign attempts. This exact thing happened with one of my injectors, and it was tossed into the recylcle bin as it could not be 'fixed'.

Hope this helps someone with inector cleaning and perhaps problem solving?
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 03-06-2007, 08:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #102 (permalink)
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True, but he can do a simple test to check basic functionality and cleanliness in the garage.
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Old 03-06-2007, 09:02 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #103 (permalink)
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Probably true. Can you tell us how that is done?

(The crack pressure is 3.3 bar/approx 50 psi)
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 03-06-2007, 09:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #104 (permalink)
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Typically, I will just take a spare fuel line and fill it with carb cleaner or brake cleaner. Then grab the ole' air gun and pressurize the hose. 125psi will crack the valve off the seat and you can get an idea of what the spray pattern looks like.

Now you better secure the injector in a vice or something otherwise it will get kinda ugly.

Now if you really want to get sophisticated you can use an standard CIS fuel pump and build a test rig. Then you can feed a continuous level of cleaner through the injector.

I have also soaked them overnight in lacquer thinner and blown them out with compressed air. Typically that will dissolve most of the carbon deposits.

This does not replace proper stand cleaning and flow balancing, if you are planning on stepping up the performance. If that is the case, you should send the injectors out to someone who can flow and balance the injectors.
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Old 03-06-2007, 11:39 AM
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Brett,

125PSI wont damage the injector? What about particulate buildup that cant be disolved with chemicals? Brand new injector time? Actually like you guys, I'm a tinkerer and may build a small test stand with a graduate liter and blow out and flow test them and log the data. I would probably use and aftermarket petro pump capable of 90 PSI... Just a thought... When I used to rebuild Webers the emulsion tubes used to get a risidual buildup of grayish sediment..Like calsium carbonate.. Just dip them in murriatic acid and boil in hot water to remove any residual acid from the crystaline pours of the metal..Get nasty corrosion if you dont. Look brand new after. This method probably would work on the injector because of all the materials in the assembly. I may try to clean an old one that way...and see what happens...

Thanks

Bob
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Old 03-06-2007, 11:55 AM
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No it won't hurt the injectors.
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Old 03-06-2007, 12:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #107 (permalink)
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You cannot balance or adjust the flow of the CIS injector - ie, they are not serviceable.
What you can do is see what the spray pattern and flow rates are, and weed out the heavy flow-ers and the sparse ones to get a good balance amongst the 6.
Haven't heard of carbon in a CIS fuel injector...

Why make it more diffucult than it may need to be - send them out and be done with it.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 03-06-2007, 01:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #108 (permalink)
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I have a set of new flow tested Euro injectors that I no longer need if you are interested.

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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 03-06-2007, 07:56 PM
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The only thing I am suggesting is a quick check of the injectors, it is nothing in depth.
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Old 03-06-2007, 09:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #110 (permalink)
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Actually thanks everybody. I poured in a bottle of Lucas injector cleaner just for the heck of it to see if there would be any difference ( Is this a bad thing?). The car runs well and smooth and dont think I have an issue. I will check and servise the CIS when I get my checker here soon. I know the injectors are flowing well because of how much gas the car will eat when you jump on it. It seams you can see the gauge show a diminishing amount of gas before your eyes. I've been reading my CIS service book and getting some good insight. I'm actually more worried about a few small oil leaks that are messing up my driveway. My oil consumption is way to high.. Its leaking and I certain Its leaking in my turbo...Thats why I wanted to upgrade to the K27. The car has adequate power. Its really about as fast as my 82 SC off boost. I think it has descent compression. I will check this weekend. Also I need to add another oil cooler. It was running about 230 on a warn day last week according to the guage??????. I can tell its warm because its much more crisp and 200 degrees....(Indicated)

Thanks

Bob
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Old 03-07-2007, 05:46 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #111 (permalink)
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'I know the injectors are flowing well because of how much gas the car will eat when you jump on it.'

Cute, Give 'em a check anyway
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 03-07-2007, 06:48 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #112 (permalink)
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I will, I will, You have to admit these cars can drink some gas...These California gas prices are making me nervous... Everyday they have been getting higher since the election...in November...??? Craig you are in Washington, but in California there is a bill to require all cars older than 15 will be required to be smogged Annually!! and a dismantling Tax...

Our great Marxists at work...
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Old 03-08-2007, 10:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #113 (permalink)
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Right, recall I mentioned the inspections - Reobert, do think about the visuals they do in your state and that the changes you make may not pass inspection - you will have to R&R them at that time.....
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 03-08-2007, 10:37 AM
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OT, but here are pics of my cars for Robert to see !

930



911

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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 03-09-2007, 01:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #115 (permalink)
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Man, that is a nice blue!
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 03-09-2007, 01:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #116 (permalink)
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Thanks Craig. AFAIK it's very similair to the 964 3.8RS blue. A very rare car.

Oh, I think I have commented about your cars looks before. I love it!
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 03-10-2007, 05:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #117 (permalink)
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Nathan, Awesome...I love the wing...To bad they dont go on a 87 turbo...Wheels are great too! Thanks for everything...Your a saint!

Bob
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Old 03-14-2007, 05:22 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #118 (permalink)
 
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I just replied to your PM. I should of checked here first...

My car is a '81 930, anything is possible with enough effort.
When I went to view the car I went with intention that if I bought it I would return it to stock.
However, when I saw the car I changed my mind immediately!
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg

Last edited by NathanUK; 03-14-2007 at 01:39 PM..
Old 03-14-2007, 01:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #119 (permalink)
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