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See your point Craig but welding (for me) is easy and removing/welding/realigning new mounts isn't. I can box both sides, can't see where the Wevo is superior but I will look at it tomorrow.
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Old 03-16-2007, 07:45 PM
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Slippery slope 9000.00 will turn into 20,000 once you get started, it's hard to stop... Oh by the way there is no end to the money or the madness or the next needed part or accessory!
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Old 03-16-2007, 07:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
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Well the 9000 WILL turn into 20+...but not right now. I need to maximize this $9000, as this is what I have set aside for the car presently.

Cleves EFI setup sounds great, just not the right time for me.
The motor will get redone when it needs a rebuild or blows up As tempting as getting big HP now would be, I feel the car is being held up by handling, not HP right now. Why mess with what's not broke, when clearly the handling is the weak point?

The Blownsix 1/2 bay ( or a used aftermarket of similar specs..anyone looking the sell?) and a Brian Leask RPM Controlled Solenoid Valve will be it for now, engine wise.
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1987 930 - K27 7200 / DAS Full Cage / Blownsix Intercooler / BB Headers / Zork Tube / Tial 46mm / Adjustable WUR / RPM Activated Solenoid / Open Element Air Intake / Smart Racing 27mm Sways / 24 and 33mm Torsion Bars / Adj. Spring Plates / Wevo Strut Brace / Monoballs / Tow Hooks / Oil Cooler Scoop / Brey Krauss Harness Truss / Race Seats / XD-16 AFR Guage/ 17" Kodiak Racing Whees and Nitto NT-01 255/315s
Old 03-17-2007, 07:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
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As long as you don't open up the engine, $9,000 will easily create a well planned 930.
The K27 HF or HFS from Kevin will also be a considerable improvement over a stock K27-7200 -- I have driven both at the track, and the difference is considerable. Lag.....what lag?
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 03-17-2007, 07:52 AM
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Just bought a new Blownsix 1/2 bay intercooler on Ebay for $990 from Blownsix ( I am pretty sure, sam e1st name and Canada address) delivered, saved about $260 from their retail online store price. I aslo bought the XD-16/ MC-1 combo on Ebay at the same time new for $332 delivered. Yesterday I emailed Brian Leask and I am ordering his RPM Solenoid switch to help with my AFR, the y are $269 + shipping. So thats's 3 items down and about $1600 spent.

So I will start to keep a running total and x off the items, so I can concentrate on which of the remaining items to get. Figured I'll post prices and sources for those looking for the same. Hopefully I am getting them for a competitive prices. Usaully I am a pretty good shopper.

1. Bilstein Sports all around
2. 23/30 hollow torsion bars
3. Adjustable sway bars front and rear (Tarrett, although Smart racing looks great but $$)
4. Monoballs and new camber plates (Rennline??)
5. 3 pt. strut brace ( maybe Rennline integrated system to match monoballs)
6. Bushings all around front and rear (mechanic has a favorite, blue Urathane??)
7. Ball joints (mechanic has a favorite)
8. Corner balance
9. Maybe lowera tad more, at Euro height now (will I need bump steer kit or rack spacers??)
10. BlownSix 1/2 bay intercooler ***Bought***
11. Wide band sensor and gauge/ LC-1 XD-16 combo ***Bought***
12. Brian Leask RPM solenoid ***Bought***
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1987 930 - K27 7200 / DAS Full Cage / Blownsix Intercooler / BB Headers / Zork Tube / Tial 46mm / Adjustable WUR / RPM Activated Solenoid / Open Element Air Intake / Smart Racing 27mm Sways / 24 and 33mm Torsion Bars / Adj. Spring Plates / Wevo Strut Brace / Monoballs / Tow Hooks / Oil Cooler Scoop / Brey Krauss Harness Truss / Race Seats / XD-16 AFR Guage/ 17" Kodiak Racing Whees and Nitto NT-01 255/315s

Last edited by F350Lawman; 03-17-2007 at 08:05 PM..
Old 03-17-2007, 06:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
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I have my euro cars lower, I haven't even got rack spacers. The arms look fairly level. I would just get the rack spacers. I don't like the thought of those spacers that go on the tie rods...
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 03-18-2007, 02:02 AM
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Here's a spreadsheet showing what different torsion bar setups will do: Notice how 23/30 would provide good balance on an SC/Carrera, but not so good on a 930.

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Old 03-18-2007, 05:42 AM
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Great chart.. I have 23/31's on my SC and am right now installing 24/33's on my 930. What does "add rear coilovers" mean on the chart? My assumption is that is the next step beyond 24/33... like to add a 150LB "helper" spring into the mix. What would that do to shocks custom valved for the 33mm spring?
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Old 03-18-2007, 06:06 AM
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David - that is a great chart.

One question, if I might interrupt the thread. What happens when you add huge T-bars to the rear of a 930 and leave the front bars stock? Like stock front and 31 rears?

I have heard of this done many times and always wondered what the handling consequences were.
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Old 03-18-2007, 06:37 AM
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Thanks for the chart. I am thinking 23/33 and and maybe a shock with helper spring in the rear.

How about he bars from what I see

1. Weltmeister- looks like it will work and is probably more than I will ever need...but quality no where near others $350. Sorry, I am no snoba nd have abudget, and I am sure they work..but they look like curtain rods with the color and hollow unsealed ends

2. Tarett Engineering- looks great price not bad @ $475 ea. Best bang for buck??

3. Elephant Racing looks like the Tarett bar but @ $525 ea. it is $100 more???

4. TRG- looks like a step up from Tarett/Elephant..but how much $$$??? and how much better???

5. Smart Racing- Damn they are pretty!! They look like art and look like they would work FOREVER. AT $525 rear and $675 front they are pricey?? Are they worth it, at $250 more than Tarett??

Any real world thoughts or experiences?? Right now the Smart Racings are calling me. MUST RESIST>>MUST RESIST>>URGE TO BUY>>>URGE TO BUY
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1987 930 - K27 7200 / DAS Full Cage / Blownsix Intercooler / BB Headers / Zork Tube / Tial 46mm / Adjustable WUR / RPM Activated Solenoid / Open Element Air Intake / Smart Racing 27mm Sways / 24 and 33mm Torsion Bars / Adj. Spring Plates / Wevo Strut Brace / Monoballs / Tow Hooks / Oil Cooler Scoop / Brey Krauss Harness Truss / Race Seats / XD-16 AFR Guage/ 17" Kodiak Racing Whees and Nitto NT-01 255/315s

Last edited by F350Lawman; 03-18-2007 at 06:56 AM..
Old 03-18-2007, 06:39 AM
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The "add rear coilovers" is because 33 is the largest available, so helper coilovers are needed to keep from having to much understeer.

For autocross and street driving, I think large rear torsion bars would be fun. On the track, it might only work for Juan Montoya or similarly skilled driver.

I think the main difference with the Elephant racing bars is they're plated and have end plugs.
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Old 03-18-2007, 06:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #31 (permalink)
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Huge rear torsions only = drifter car with huge imbalance F to R.
Notice how the chart show you a higher rear spring rate equals 'less understeer'?

Large rear torsions + 150 lb helpers make the car a TON easier to drive. Feels like a much lighter car - kinda like my old SC track car.
Do yourself a favor, and if it sees track duty, do it right the first time.
A squatty, rolly, high powered 930 isn't much fun at the track.

What about tires? BFG KD.

Decent brake pads & Motul 600 fluid- for track use

Sell the K27-7200. K27 HF is so much better.
--------------------
125 shifter did provide you with good advice per the below:

"If you really want to stick with torsion bars, I think 23/30 will give too much understeer. If you don't want to go as stiff as Craig recommends, I'd suggest 22/31 or 23/33.

I also give a vote for Elephant Racings bushings and monoballs over regular Urethane.

For shocks, I'd have yours rebuilt and revalved or go with some custom valved new Bilsteins (assuming you don't want to spend for really good shocks).

A bigger intercooler is a good idea and Blown Six seem to be making some good stuff after a few fitment teething problems.

I guess a lambda sensor can't hurt, but I'd want dyno tuning first."
-----------

350 - This whole thing depends on what you want from the car, what you can stand on the street,
whether you take advice from folks that have 'been there', and what your budget is.
You've told us $9,000. don't mind a stiff street ride, and you will take it to the track.
So, consequently I recommend a setup similar to mine - which works astoundingly well - not a regret, easy(ier) to drive, and very rewarding car to own all around. Take on GT3s with relative ease at lapping days ;-)
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno

Last edited by Craig 930 RS; 03-18-2007 at 07:56 AM..
Old 03-18-2007, 07:51 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #32 (permalink)
 
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What about the hollow sanders bars, aren't they meant to be the best ?
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 03-18-2007, 08:25 AM
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Not sure but my guy got me hollow 24 Sander's in Front, solid Elepahant 33mm in back..
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Old 03-18-2007, 11:27 AM
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Not sure about that mix, I'd just palce a call to Elephant about it before install.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 03-18-2007, 11:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #35 (permalink)
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I trust Dan Jacob's implicitly, but thank you for the concern Craig.
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Old 03-18-2007, 11:38 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #36 (permalink)
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10-4. Your spring rate will be different than matching hollows or solids - something to consider.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 03-18-2007, 11:41 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #37 (permalink)
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Would be nice to know the theory behind that. It beats me.
Can you find out for us next time you speak to him Gary ?
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 03-18-2007, 12:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #38 (permalink)
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Be glad to, will see him on Tuesday. Most likely one of his setup secrets..
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Old 03-18-2007, 01:39 PM
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Possibly an attempt to add more spring rate to the rear in relation to the front.
You'll still have squat from the rear and not enough spring rate w/o the coilover helpers - I'm starting to sound like a broken record
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 03-18-2007, 02:00 PM
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