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F350Lawman's Avatar
 
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Lightbulb $9,000 on upgrades...what 2 buy???

I have about 9k to spend on upgrades. Car is modded as listed in my signature and sits on 16" Fuchs with new rubber all around.

I spoke to my mechanic and he thinks the best bet is to do a big time suspension upgrade and an upgraded intercooler. I think I agree, but I am open to suggestions. Give me some suggestions on what you would do.

Here is some background:

1. car looks good could use paint but that can wait
2. runs strong, top end rebuild along w/ clutch and tranny 12K ago
3. I intend to do mostly street driving (<10K yearly) with a few DE's and AX,s a year
4. I drive the car hard and fast and I am pretty tolerant of a stiff ride.
5. Grey interior could use a little freshening, I will be ordering 2 Recaro knockoffs, carpet set, RS door panels, headliner and stereo upgrade from other $$
6. Car squats BADLY on throttle right now, I can make it go dead straight in a corner VERY easily
7. Keep in mind the next motor rebuild ( whenever that fateful day arrives) will probably be a maxed out 400+CIS or just maybe a EFI 500hp car. So I want a suspension that will work now but be up to any future task.

My initial plan:

1. Bilstein Sports all around
2. 23/30 hollow torsion bars
3. Adjustable sway bars front and rear (Tarrett, although Smart racing looks great but $$)
4. Monoballs and new camber plates (Rennline??)
5. 3 pt. strut brace ( maybe Rennline integrated system to match monoballs)
6. Bushings all around front and rear (mechanic has a favorite, blue Urathane??)
7. Ball joints (mechanic has a favorite)
8. Corner balance
9. Maybe lower a tad more car, is at Euro height now (will I need bump steer kit or rack spacers??)
10. BlownSix 1/2 bay intercooler
11. Wide band sensor and gauge

Goal:

***Car is fast enough now ( I mean on boost for anything over 10 seconds is just outrageous on public roads), so I figured making it handle as well as it goes would make sense.

What do you think?? I bet my labor $$ is going to be pricey. I think the parts are in the $5000 + area depending upon what brands I pick. Am I on the right track what should I change, do differently or not bother with at all??


Thanks
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1987 930 - K27 7200 / DAS Full Cage / Blownsix Intercooler / BB Headers / Zork Tube / Tial 46mm / Adjustable WUR / RPM Activated Solenoid / Open Element Air Intake / Smart Racing 27mm Sways / 24 and 33mm Torsion Bars / Adj. Spring Plates / Wevo Strut Brace / Monoballs / Tow Hooks / Oil Cooler Scoop / Brey Krauss Harness Truss / Race Seats / XD-16 AFR Guage/ 17" Kodiak Racing Whees and Nitto NT-01 255/315s
Old 03-15-2007, 09:08 PM
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Coil overs are meant to give better handling, remove the torsions first.

Have you seen those fancy new rear arms ? They alter the geomotry as the car changes height. Should give better stability.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 03-16-2007, 02:20 AM
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I really want to keep the original major "characteristics" of the car, that is why I intend to stick with torsion bars and down the road,CIS.

I think I remember reading a thread about the arms, who makes them?? They sound like an idea worth investigating.

Thanks
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1987 930 - K27 7200 / DAS Full Cage / Blownsix Intercooler / BB Headers / Zork Tube / Tial 46mm / Adjustable WUR / RPM Activated Solenoid / Open Element Air Intake / Smart Racing 27mm Sways / 24 and 33mm Torsion Bars / Adj. Spring Plates / Wevo Strut Brace / Monoballs / Tow Hooks / Oil Cooler Scoop / Brey Krauss Harness Truss / Race Seats / XD-16 AFR Guage/ 17" Kodiak Racing Whees and Nitto NT-01 255/315s
Old 03-16-2007, 06:31 AM
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I agree with your thought about keeping the torsion bars. I switched to coilovers and then back to TBars. TBars fit these cars better. No doubt coilovers are a better solution in cars designed for them but our cars are designed for TBars.

Your "initial plan" sounds on target.

Don't foget to save some cash for items you will see and use inside the car. Carpets, switches, gauges, ...

Also, maybe a set of track tires/wheels might help you enjoy track events even more. That is one of my next upgrades. Tires make soooo much difference.
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Old 03-16-2007, 07:06 AM
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1) Lower/corner balance
2) Improved tires for sure. BFG KDs.
3) 24/33 torsions with 150lb helpers on a coilover in the rear will amaze you. This is a must-do. You do not need reinforcement.
4) Sways
5) Elephant racing lubed bushings
6) Full checkup of CIS operation
7) AFR and dyno run - possible fuel head
8) K27 HF from Kevin - do it.....
9) Improved IC - for track use, a must with the above mods

This is all under 9k, installed. Your car will be transormed.

Skip the suspension geometry stuff - not needed as the camber changes nicely with a 930 compared to a 911 - this straight from the inventor himself.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno

Last edited by Craig 930 RS; 03-16-2007 at 08:23 AM..
Old 03-16-2007, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Craig 930 RS
Skip the suspension geometry stuff - not needed as the camber changes nicely with a 930 compared to a 911 - this straight from the inventor himself.
Can you elaborate on that please Craig ?
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg

Last edited by NathanUK; 03-16-2007 at 02:31 PM..
Old 03-16-2007, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by F350Lawman
I think I remember reading a thread about the arms, who makes them?? They sound like an idea worth investigating.

Thanks
Here it is.
New Elephant Spring Plate
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 03-16-2007, 09:15 AM
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I don't want to speak for another product, but I'll summarize

Something like this:
Camber change with suspension movement on a 911 is not optimal - but a 930, due to the completely different banana arm length and geometry has more optimal movement than a 911.

Thus I personally decided to stay with the spring plates I have.

You do need to look into the Polybronze busings and monoball trailing arm bushings from Chuck:
http://www.elephantracing.com/suspension/bushings/911bushings.htm

Torsions:
http://www.elephantracing.com/suspension/torsionbars/911torsionbars.htm

You have many, many opportunities with your money at this point - and $9,000 will go a long way towards creating one incredible 930.
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 03-16-2007, 09:27 AM
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Wife bought a HANS device for track work - harnesses and an appropraite seat are a must with this.
Where do we stop?
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 03-16-2007, 09:39 AM
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F350, Tarret engineering makes a set of slide on coil overs that work really well for the 930. It would cost about 900$-1200$ to do all for corners. I would do those and update the bushings and sway bars to have a hell of a lot of fun in the twisties. Full bay intercooler sounds nice as well for the motor and maybe imaginauto fuel head mod.
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Old 03-16-2007, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 930gt-40r
F350, Tarret engineering makes a set of slide on coil overs that work really well for the 930. It would cost about 900$-1200$ to do all for corners. I would do those and update the bushings and sway bars to have a hell of a lot of fun in the twisties. Full bay intercooler sounds nice as well for the motor and maybe imaginauto fuel head mod.
The more I read, the more I think that the coilover setup as a helper to the torsion bar is the way to go. And, for that matter, since heavier T bars require new shocks or a revalve of what you have now, why not simply buy the coilover shock/strut kit with springs that will put you in the ballpark on top of the stock T bars - if a 150lb helper on top of a 33mm T bar is a target for the rear, it's easy to calculate the correct spring to augment the stock rear bar. Plus, it makes it easier to return to stock if that was ever a concern. And, using a 150 - 350 lb spring on top of a T bar will not overload the factory upper shock mount like a total swap to coilovers would.
Old 03-16-2007, 12:31 PM
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I have to agree. It is what I have on my 930, and it works very well.
Excessive squat is a thing of the past, and the track 'handling' is phenomenal.


Think about the WEVO sway mounts - the stockers tend to rip out during street use on a stiff car when you encounter different side/side twisting loads. Been there




With anti-rust goo:
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 03-16-2007, 12:50 PM
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Craig what kind of shock/strut combo do you have with the helper springs? I had discussed this with my mechanic and he said we could try the Bilstein sports and heavier bars and then get the helpers is needed. Sounds like I might just as well do it in the first place.

As far as the sway bar mounts, my mechanic said he fabricates reinforcements.
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1987 930 - K27 7200 / DAS Full Cage / Blownsix Intercooler / BB Headers / Zork Tube / Tial 46mm / Adjustable WUR / RPM Activated Solenoid / Open Element Air Intake / Smart Racing 27mm Sways / 24 and 33mm Torsion Bars / Adj. Spring Plates / Wevo Strut Brace / Monoballs / Tow Hooks / Oil Cooler Scoop / Brey Krauss Harness Truss / Race Seats / XD-16 AFR Guage/ 17" Kodiak Racing Whees and Nitto NT-01 255/315s
Old 03-16-2007, 02:19 PM
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Craig, thanks for the info on the 930 rear arms. I didn't think they looked much different to the 911. I did however know that the stock cmaber settings are different though, didn't know why. Thanks.

A reason those new arms sound good is due to the toe setting.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 03-16-2007, 02:37 PM
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Raised spindles up front - allows full travel at lower ride height.

Often the reinforcements break - in my opinion the WEVO consoles are a final and robust way to do the job.
On my ex-911SC with the 3.6, I went thru the stockers, the factory reinforced mounts, then the WEVOs.
The way the stock mounts are fabricated - I think the convoluted metal throughout the mount is too thin, and any reinforcement is suspect to fail again.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 03-16-2007, 03:22 PM
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If you really want to stick with torsion bars, I think 23/30 will give too much understeer. If you don't want to go as stiff as Craig recommends, I'd suggest 22/31 or 23/33.

I also give a vote for Elephant Racings bushings and monoballs over regular Urethane.

For shocks, I'd have yours rebuilt and revalved or go with some custom valved new Bilsteins (assuming you don't want to spend for really good shocks).

A bigger intercooler is a good idea and Blown Six seem to be making some good stuff after a few fitment teething problems.

I guess a lambda sensor can't hurt, but I'd want dyno tuning first.

Good luck with it!
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Old 03-16-2007, 05:21 PM
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If you want a complete 500+HP EFI Motronic Protomotive Stage 3 system which originally cost over $21,000 installed, I will sell all the necessary parts for $7000: Stainless Headers, Carrera Intake, Huge Intercooler, Fresh Turbonetics T04 Turbo, Wastegate, Stainless Twin Outlet Exhaust, Injectors, Wiring Harness, Distributor, ECU, etc. Call with any questions, I am having Bill Rudtner build me a 7-800 HP Haltech injected, Twin Plugged, 3.4, and will not need the Protomotive set up for my 934 replica.

Cleve Meredith 404-226-9766
Old 03-16-2007, 06:24 PM
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Great deal, Cleve....too bad your way too late for me, I would have jumped at that. Have you posted in the classified section?
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Old 03-16-2007, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Craig 930 RS
Raised spindles up front - allows full travel at lower ride height.

Often the reinforcements break - in my opinion the WEVO consoles are a final and robust way to do the job.
On my ex-911SC with the 3.6, I went thru the stockers, the factory reinforced mounts, then the WEVOs.
The way the stock mounts are fabricated - I think the convoluted metal throughout the mount is too thin, and any reinforcement is suspect to fail again.
I'm looking at that now myself. Though I have a set of new Wevo mounts i'm thinking I can weld in a piece of plate thet will weld right to the existing mounts and nuts.
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Old 03-16-2007, 07:28 PM
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Yes, you could but look at the rest of the factory mount setup - they can and will rip from the tub, rip at the reinforcements - they WILL find the weakest point and tear right out.

WEVO without a doubt for stiff sway bar cars that see street use and track use - don't take shortcuts. A dropped sway really, really sucks.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 03-16-2007, 07:39 PM
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