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mark '87 930's Avatar
 
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Finally got the LM-1 kit in the car.. pretty cool..

I confirmed my suspicions of having a rich running car. If you've been looking at my other post, my car stalls when I try to get her to go, sure enough the AFR's are at about 9!

I do wonder if the 10% ethanol blend plays a part in this.
Anyhow, I leaned her up about 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn and it runs much better. Should I be doing that without the O2 sensor connected?
I had a little trouble with the right RPM readout as well.. gotta figure that one out.

Cool stuff though.
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1987 930
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Old 03-30-2007, 05:26 PM
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I have a '77 that also goes rich under boost. I'm wondering if I have an air leak in the intake somewhere. I can't think of any other reason why it would go rich. I'm under the impression the opposite is usually the concern.
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Old 03-30-2007, 06:33 PM
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Pics?
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Old 03-30-2007, 06:49 PM
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I'm sure under boost your o2 means nothing, just at idle. But for setting idle do it without o2 connected.
Are you using a pick up clamp for the RPM?
Old 03-30-2007, 07:21 PM
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I hooked it up to the tach purple/black wire. using electrical connectors (the same size and type as on the back of the tack, I built a'Y' cable that allowed me to hook in without splicing any wires. I then ran the wire into the cockpit. I also found a 1 inch pluged behind the drivers seat that leads into the cabin, so I wired the O2 sensor through there. Total of about 30 mins of work tie wrapping the wire and splicing into the tach signal. Not too bad considering this is temporary.

The RPM signal was noisy though..but I have to figure that part out still, it's late and I had a final hockey game tonight (couldn't miss that!).

Pics? I guess I could get some, it is a temporary install, as I am just using it for testing. I thought more of getting some log data on here (I guess both are in order)
So I need ot set the idle mixture without the O2 sensor connected.. got it. I will do that tomorrow AM.

At first glance when I saw 9 on the meter.. That is not good for the anything, so I'll have better data tomorrow. I think I'll leave the O2 sensor disconnected altogether tomorrow and tune it.. then reconnect it afterwards. THIS IS FUN. I'm a sick puppy, I know.
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1987 930
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Old 03-30-2007, 07:40 PM
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Some pictures

I know how everyone likes pictures.. including me.. so here you go

You see how black the end of the clamp got due to the richness (that was only 5 minutes of driving). the pipe clamp is added measure of security.


Above the drivers side rear wheel well is the housing that has the cable for the rear deck lid mechanism.. I tie wrapped the O2 cable to that Can't see too well in this one, but just behind there is where I routed the sensor cable into the cockpit Cable into the cockpit My losy goosy and very within reach install!! The LMA-2 I hide underneath the left side of the knee pad
These next two I couldn't get the camera in far ienough.. but that's the back of the Tach. The orange wire is what I used to connect into the tach and the purple/black tach wire.
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1987 930
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Old 03-30-2007, 08:29 PM
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Very Cool Mark!!

Just got back from Phoenix.....going to re-install the turbo tomorrow am.......hopefully.....dying to get her out for a run!!!!!!
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Old 03-30-2007, 09:12 PM
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Isn't the O2 sensor supposed to be screwed into the exhaust system 8" south of the turbo for optimum performance? I have always seen these mounted in a welded bung just before the muffler body.
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Old 03-30-2007, 09:14 PM
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I've never seen a super clean signal, I've lloked at maybe 5 different graphs that haven't been smoothed.
Post a screen shot W/out smoothing it and everyone will be able to say how noisy it is compared to theirs.
You could also email a log to Steve as he;s seen many more logs than any of us.
Old 03-31-2007, 12:23 AM
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I'll give it another go this AM shortly. I don't want to wake up the neighbours just yet!

The Exhaust clamp is an option for these units and does work quite well. The tuners/Dyno shops I visited around here all stick it up the tail pipe. I didn't want to weld anything to my muffler as it's not a permanent thing. The stock O2 sensor position is NOT optimal and I don't want to ruin the sensor at all. Accorrding to Innovate, this is a reliable and 'patented' solution.

I'll post some logs and take seom screen shots. I just need to be able to stretch it's legs.. hard to do here in town!
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Old 03-31-2007, 04:00 AM
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Clamping to the tail pipe is fine if you do not

1... have a dual out muffler
2... you are not going to check/set the co/afr at idle.
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Old 03-31-2007, 05:59 AM
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Here is a picture of a really quick log.. I haven't had a chance to get out on the open road and get a real data. I'm acutally a little worried about doing it as the car pings a lot now (it must be detonation). The AFr's are in the low 12 and even see some 11's there though.. so I know I need to change my gas.

This is how 'rough' the RPM looks.

I'm not sure how to get a log file up here, but if one of you want it, I can send it to you via email.
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Old 03-31-2007, 09:39 AM
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spred the time on the graph out so you're looking at 1/2 seconds.
use the minus magnifier glass at the top of logworks and click on the time bar at the bottom.
It doesnt look tat bad, as far as noise goes
email it to me if you want jerrybrinkley at hotmail

Last edited by jbrinkley; 03-31-2007 at 09:46 AM..
Old 03-31-2007, 09:43 AM
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I'm new at this.. but did what you suggested and this is what it looks like.

I will forward you two log files, I just went out and was able to capture 1st and part of 2nd gear!

My car is SOO lean(look at the second chart) when just cruising and when I let off though.. I see 20's.. that is way high no? Under boost though I see 11's!! I guess this is where EFO comes in... I'm just worried about that pinging.. I think it it more prominent now that I have the O2 sensor wired through the cabin. The plug I had to remove makes a bid noise difference.



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Old 03-31-2007, 02:03 PM
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ideally you really want to see runs in third or fourth gear up to what you want to shift at. You want from 2000 rpm to whatever your redline or what you feel comfortable with 5500- 6500- 7500
what you're talking about as lean, is after you let off, and the throttle closes. Eveyone sees the same high numbers at max vacuum. You want to see what happens from the pass through pressure to your full boost. Logging at low rpm's or while your shifting gears is just playing around with it.
logging on the freeway in fourth is best. This gives you enough time to look at a boost gauge, if you have a somewhat accurate one. Don't do this if you can't afford a ticket or a tow truck or bail money, or you can't find a deserted freeway.

looking at the log it looks like you shifted in first at 42-41 and let off in second at 32-33. Sorta like you're not even driving and surely you're not at full boost at 3200rpm (maybe you are in second gear, don't really know)
I'd get some books like the bosch mortonic/cis manual
that C. Bell turbo book and maybe "how to tune and modify engine management systems"
There's some EFi books out there worth reading also.

This is the point where if you really want to know you car and get seriously involved with it, it starts to get obsessive.
inovate has great forums to get more info here
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/index.php

before you know it you'll want to graph boost, fuel pressure and in/out temps. And the list goes on as the wallet gets lighter.
Old 03-31-2007, 02:56 PM
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Too funny but true...

I sent you an email with the logs.. and I agree, 3/4 gears will be much better data. My concern is that pinging I'm hearing, I don't want to hurt the car (the reason I got the Lm-1 in the first place).

It's also not readin my RPm's properly as I shifted at 6K RPM in first, and let off at 4 in second.
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Old 03-31-2007, 03:00 PM
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I just read that email. oops.
I'll look again

edit, do some logs on fourth. and check your set up.
It's a good idea to have your laptop sitting there with it open and the gauges on the screen while you set up the RPM converter. Make sure it's reading you idle speed, if it's not and jumps around a lot, redo the rpm setup. Sometimes it takes me a long time to get both the afr dial and rpm dial on the screen to match up with the tach in the car. After I get it right I close the laptop and set it on the floor and go log.

It's also easy to not have the channel configured right.
search for a while at the innovate forum for more info about RPM converter

Last edited by jbrinkley; 03-31-2007 at 03:19 PM..
Old 03-31-2007, 03:08 PM
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You are not going to get the best readings with that sensor location.
The O2 sensor really needs to be in the muffler inlet pipe on this application. A muffler shop can do it in under an hour, shouldn't be $30. You get a plug with the bung.

The pinging is a concern. What is your timing? What fuel grade are you using? Is your compression ratio stock?
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Old 03-31-2007, 07:20 PM
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Brian,


The pinging is my only concern, this is why I go the LM-1. I am going to guess at stock timing Do I check it with a simple timing gun? Fuel grade is 91, but I am now switching to 94. Compression is also stock.

I'm running at 13psi, so .9bar.
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Last edited by mark '87 930; 04-01-2007 at 04:55 AM..
Old 03-31-2007, 07:27 PM
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Simple timing gun.
Set at 26* total advance and see what you hear.
Is your car a Euro by chance?
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 03-31-2007, 09:06 PM
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