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Which Garrett turbo?

G'day fella's,
It's my first post and my first 930 so I'm abit of a numpty with much to learn.
I'm in the process of warming up the ol' girl with aftermarket headers and a B6 intercooler on the way.

From what I have read, it would seem that the standard 3DLZ is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.
The local Garret dealer can make up pretty much whatever I like.
My question is what specs would you guys recommend for a GT30 or maybe a GT35? I was gonna go with standard bearings, so I won't have to mess with oil or water cooling, (Warranty void unless cooled). I always do a cool down on my motor and would be happy with just a normal oil cooled turbo.

This is a street car only and I would prefer quicker spool rather than a big top end rush but I don't want to lose out too much at the top end if that is possible. Alway's a compromise I'm sure.

Thanks in advance guys

Old 04-26-2007, 06:17 PM
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I'd highly recommend a GT30R if you want a quick spooling street turbo and you have decided on a Garrett solution.

I run a GT35R on my daily streeter and it's an awesome turbo, but it's unlikely I'd ever get to explore what the turbo is REALLY capable of. I'd go with a GT30R next time.

My GT35R is running oil cooled only (water ports left open) and it's been on the car for over 7 months now without any issues. Just exercise proper cool-down after a hard run and you'llbe fine.

My suggestion would be a GT30R with 0.82A/R GT Turbine Housing. You'll need to have your muffler inlet modified to suit the turbo. I'd recommend a 3" V-band interface for easy R&R in future. You'll also have to modify your oil drip tank to mate with the GT turbo, as it uses a different flange to the KKK/3DLZ.

If you don't want to go through all that trouble, then stick with a KKK solution, such as a K27-7200 or K27-HF/HFS. They should be a 100% drop in upgrade for the 3DLZ.

Good luck

EDIT: Mind you, if my car were a track car, I'd be running oil through the water ports as well, for extra cooling, durability & insurance. For street, running oil cooled only is fine
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Last edited by WydRyd; 04-26-2007 at 07:07 PM..
Old 04-26-2007, 06:59 PM
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K27-HF/HFS and GT30R which one spool up faster? at what rpm?? please advise. thanks
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Old 04-26-2007, 10:59 PM
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Thanks very much Merv for your info, I see what you mean about the mods required for the GT.
Still a little undecided on GT or K27, both would offer a significant improvement over stock, especially with aftermarket headers and intercooler....ah, the agony of choice!
Old 04-27-2007, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RennSport930
K27-HF/HFS and GT30R which one spool up faster? at what rpm?? please advise. thanks
GT30R ball-bearing turbo. Especially for street.

Archie930, if you want a hasstle free upgrade, go down the K27 route as there's minimal mods to the rest of the system to upgrade. The GT's are an awesome turbo though
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Old 04-27-2007, 01:22 PM
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I have GT35R and it rocks! I get full boost before 3k.

I also run just oil with water port not connected.
You could hear turbin spinning for awhile after engine is turned off. Way cool!
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Old 04-27-2007, 03:31 PM
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I will use a 3582 with .63, I feel that the 3076 is too small, another option is a hybrid one, like a 3082 with .82 ( aka 3040, basically using a 3076 turbine/hot housing paired with a 3582 compressor/comp. hsng.), lots of options., Candy.
Old 04-27-2007, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Candelaria
I will use a 3582 with .63, I feel that the 3076 is too small, another option is a hybrid one, like a 3082 with .82 ( aka 3040, basically using a 3076 turbine/hot housing paired with a 3582 compressor/comp. hsng.), lots of options., Candy.
I'd think a 3582 (GT35R) with a 0.63 turbine HSG would be too restrictive on a 3.3 motor. Yes it would spool amazingly quickly, but it would choke the motor in the top end. I'd suggest a 0.78 divided inlet HSG, or a 0.82 HSG. Good compromise between response and power
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Old 04-27-2007, 05:46 PM
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The original poster, must first decide where he want his power at.,best, Candy.
Old 04-27-2007, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by youngkang
I have GT35R and it rocks! I get full boost before 3k.

I also run just oil with water port not connected.
You could hear turbin spinning for awhile after engine is turned off. Way cool!
are you running 3.3 stock internal?? full boost before 3K just sounds wonderful to me. I have heard K27 spool up slower.
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Old 04-28-2007, 12:54 PM
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Stock internal with EFI conversion.
Boost set at .8 bar with ~320hp at wheel.

I forgot to add that I have custom header and exhaust.
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Old 04-28-2007, 01:09 PM
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Candy is right... decide where you want your power-band and then match a turbo appropriate to that application. Smaller A/R's will move the power-band lower in the rpm range, but will top out sooner, whereas a larger A/R will move the power band higher up the rpm range but will sacrifice responsiveness in the lower range. It's all a compromise.

My headers has a divided collector, so I decided on a divided inlet turbine HSG to match the header design. It's suppose to improve response/spool-up and I've been pleased with the results. Car is purely street and what minimal lag IS there is negligible.

A GT30R has a 500HP capable compressor, but on an older 911 motor, you're looking at around ~420HP capability. This is perfect for your application and will provide a very streetable setup. It will get up and go very nicely. If you want a bit more top end HP and sacrifice a little bit of response (it won't be much), go with the GT35R. That will give you up to around ~510HP capability and won't run out of breathe in the upper RPM band

OR, if you want to go a bit crazy, go with a GT40R for ~600HP capability. It won't be as responsive, but you'll make a tonne of power You can expect full boost to be in the high 3K rpm range I'd say, but it will give you a nice punch in the chest when it kicks in The 40R isn't available with a T3 HSG, so you'll need to modify your headers with a T4 merge collector to run that baby.
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Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 04-28-2007, 03:15 PM
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I know nothing about Garrett turbos, however I can give you some 1st and 2nd hand info on the K27 series.

First off there is MUCH more to fast spool up than just the turbo. All of the coordinating components in combination with perfect tuning are required for minimum lag.

An extreme example that I know of consists of a 3.3L CIS engine, SC330 cams, aftermarket heat echangers/headers, ported heads, and a K27S turbo:
- 470CHP, 400RWHP
- Boost Threshold @ 1800rpm, 1.0Bar @ 2600rpm, no perceptable lag
- 22mpg highway

There is more than one way to skin a cat.
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Old 04-28-2007, 05:26 PM
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Brian is absolutely correct. No point having a quick spooling turbo with a sub-standard tune. The tune of the motor plays a HUGE part in overall response and drivability off/on boost
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Old 04-28-2007, 11:40 PM
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I am resurrecting this thread. I need some thoughts on turbo applications. I have been using an Innovative Turbo Systems GT 66. I have had some issues and am thinking about Garrets. Would appreciate wisdom from fellow enthusiasts.

I have a Porsche 930 GT1 prepared car. Here are my engine specs:

3.5 liter long stroke (3.6 crankshaft)
CMW Motorsport billet d-port cylinder heads with enlarged valves
Twin plug cylinder heads with iridium spark plugs
Porsche 944 Turbo fuel injectors – have been flow matched
Carrera intake manifold
Andial GT 2 camshafts
Proto tech rising rate fuel pressure regulator
Mahle motorsport pistons and cylinders with Total Seal rings
Autronic engine management tuned by KTR Performance in Massachusetts
Innovative Turbo Systems GT66 Turbo (now broken)
Tri-flow exhaust with Tial wastegate
1 bar boost (it is adjustable with autronic)
Two front oil coolers in series

Car uses 110 or 112 octane leaded fuel and Castrol Syntech 5W50 motor oil

On dyno at 1 bar Iwe achieved 485 rear wheel hp and 440 foot pounds of torque.

Thanks for thoughts/ideas,

Bailey
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Old 12-07-2007, 04:54 PM
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how did you break the turbo?

from my expierence with non KKK turbos on these engines is that the drain that most people put on the catch tank that plumbs to the pass. side valve cover is because after shutdown there is still oil pressure on the system , while the turbo oil pump on the rear of the drivers side head is no longer rotating/doing its job . so the oil restrictor (granted that you have one) is making the pressure even higher ,while the turbo oil pump is shut off so you end up blowing the rear seal of the turbo and you get all this smoke upon start up .

also another thing is that if you use synthetic oil , cool downs are just a waste of gas , oil coking is almost eliminated with synthetic oils.

a t66 is a pretty large turbo , a gt counterpart for that size of turbo would be a gt4094r , but i would personally go with a precision gt4067 should spool pretty good on that size of an engine, and is intended to be oil cooled unlike the garrett gt BB turbos, which are designed to be water cooled. it is non BB but the newer design turbine and comressor wheels make the turbos more efficient .if money is not an issue, buy a turbonetics gt-k650 , ceramic ball bearing ,inconel turbine wheel , all types of good stuff.
Old 12-07-2007, 05:41 PM
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Thanks 930Targa. Failures have been in the cartridge. We do water cool the turbo with a small radiator and pump. The pump doesn't run all the time, but the internals like shaft etc. are not blued and do not have evidence of overheating. I don't know the names of all the internal components, but it looks like insufficient lubrication may have caused some issues that led to play in the shaft and the turbine started rubbing the housing. We have a gauge on the oil inlet and I believe the pressure was where it should be. We did find that ITS replaced the ball bearing cartridge with a non ball bearing when they did a rebuild without telling us. I'll look into some of your recommendations and appreciate any input.
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Old 12-07-2007, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 930targa View Post
how did you break the turbo?

also another thing is that if you use synthetic oil , cool downs are just a waste of gas , oil coking is almost eliminated with synthetic oils....
I did not know that; could you please elaborate? How do you know this? Thanks, munchovie.
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Old 12-09-2007, 07:26 PM
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Synthetic oils significantly reduce or eliminate the coking problem.
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'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 12-09-2007, 08:00 PM
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google it . it is a known fact that synthetic oils do not break down as drastically as conventional oils( breaking down = oil coking) . also watercooled turbos that are properly water cooled run even less chance of failing because of heat .

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_synthetic_and_conve ntional

Bailey , the turbo may have failed because of oil starvation , if the oil feed was setup for a BB turbo but it was actually a NON-BB turbo , since BB turbos need alot less oil than NON-BB it could have been the reason for your failure .
Old 12-10-2007, 08:42 AM
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