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930 3 litre Twin Turbo upgrade

I am considering fitting twin turbos to my 1977 3.O Litre . The motor was rebuilt stock about 15 000 KM, ago, but has not been used for 3 years.

The injection system is acting up, I believe there maybe some moisture issues in the WUR, so thought is to strip all the K Jetronic kit off, fit a new Motech type system and go to 2 smaller turbos and an intercooler in plaice of the stock ( new ) kkk turbo. Questions are- what turbo make and spec to go for, do fuel pumps need up rating, size of injectors required, what type of throttle body should I look at?

Aiming for a rebilkbe 300 HP, to kick in lower down that the existing set up, which has a lot of lag, do not really want to redo pistons etc at this point, but will change to SC cams and hydraulic tensioners.

Any inputs or comments will be much appreciated.
Old 04-29-2007, 02:10 PM
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If you wanna stick with the KKK turbo's, then a pair of 993TT K16's will get you there easily. Good luck trying to find a nice set of 993TT heat exchangers though... they are pretty hard to come by, so you might be up for big $$$$ for a set of aftermarket TT headers.
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Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 04-29-2007, 03:39 PM
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small t3's are fairly inexpensive
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Ben

Current project 73 914-6 Gt project rusteration 2.4
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Old 04-29-2007, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mb911
small t3's are fairly inexpensive
Agree, a pair of T3-45 or T3-50 Trim turbo's would be good for your HP goals. Get them with a 0.48 A/R turbine housing and they'll spool very nicely on a 3.0L

All you'll need to do is figure out what header solution you will use. A set of 993TT headers or a set of NA headers modified to mount the turbo's at the rear of the motor. Then the issue is plumbing in a muffler You could dump straight out to atmo, but that will be VERY loud and most probably not street legal.
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Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition

Last edited by WydRyd; 04-29-2007 at 04:59 PM..
Old 04-29-2007, 04:50 PM
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Do you have a 4 speed tranny? If so I would guess that it is one of the reasons for your "lag". Also lack of ign timing control is a problem.

I have a single k27 with a hugh intercooler on my 3.0L 930 and I have a boost treshold of 1700 rpm and not much lag. I also have SC cams and EFI.

So I don't think going TT will cure you problem but it might. EFI will help though. A 5 speed would also help I think.
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Dean
911 SC turbo, 3.0L 930 motor, G50, 930 brakes, DTA EFI, 352 RWHP DynoDynamic dyno,
Old 04-29-2007, 05:01 PM
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You may want to look to a pair of 16G Mitsubishi turbos. They are reliable, potent, internally gated, spool great, and easy to come by. As far as the manifolds go, maybe a set of used 930 B&Bs cut up and made into twinturbo headers would be a good idea.
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Old 04-29-2007, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 930gt-40r
You may want to look to a pair of 16G Mitsubishi turbos. They are reliable, potent, internally gated, spool great, and easy to come by. As far as the manifolds go, maybe a set of used 930 B&Bs cut up and made into twinturbo headers would be a good idea.
That would work but he'd have to mount the turbo's at the rear of the motor which means he'll have issues plumbing in a muffler.
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Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 04-29-2007, 07:33 PM
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There is likely no advantage to going twin turbo other than the cool factor. You can get imperceptible lag and decent fuel mileage from a single turbo and CIS.

EFI and twin turbos sounds ultra cool but you need to know up front that you will be spending a lot of money on a system you don't need if 300HP is your goal.

I have some information and ideas on going with twins posted in the highlighted thread below my signature line at the bottom of this post. I plan to finish this project when time allows. Not for power or lag reduction, but only because I want to do it.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 04-29-2007, 07:43 PM
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Here's a picture of K16s to the side and out back:




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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 04-29-2007, 07:49 PM
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F#$@ the mufflers... I think burns makes a nice small pair of silencers that could be made to fit in there.
I wish I could work a camera so I could show everyone my straight pipe- I cant wait to hear it fire. I know the police will be all over me with that one.
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Old 04-29-2007, 08:05 PM
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I've already been done by the EPA and I'm not risking running without a muffler

The pic on top with the turbo's on the side is the best solution for running a muffled street system, IMO. If it's a pur etrack car, then by all means, dump to amto out the centre! Flames would look awesome too
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Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 04-29-2007, 08:17 PM
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Another option is you can use these 993 NA headers and just modify/rotate the outlet to point upwards to mount the turbo's at the side rear of the motor. It'll still give you an option for a dual inlet muffler setup

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Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 04-29-2007, 10:35 PM
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Interesting comment on the need to upgrade the transmission, suggestions on what I should for? G 50 or G 50/50?
I believe there are mods to the floor pan required and a change to coil overs if I go this route- is this correct?

In terms of the clutch and pressure plate assembly what would be the changes required- I don't have the rubber centered clutch on this car, it came just after my model.

Also looking at twin plugging heads- is this a "must do' or a "nice to have"? Any issues with running a Motech type EFI? Plan to use spark packs and junk the distributor
Old 04-30-2007, 08:30 AM
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i have a pair of t-3 50 or 60s off of my old protomotive 3.6 twin turbo they are already moded to fit your car. Both have about 2-3k miles on them. They are for sale and come with the up pipes well. $600.00 plus shipping firm.
Old 04-30-2007, 09:47 AM
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Mark, the G50 will fit without cutting the car but it has to be shortened. Just some brackets need to be made and welded to the car.
As for the G50/50 I am not sure.

These boxes need the clutch disk you have. They also need the hydraulic clutch pedal assy from a later car.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:48 AM
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The small GT turbos are oil cooled chassis. You get modern, small and efficient. They'll easily handle 450hp and spool up nice.
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Old 04-30-2007, 06:10 PM
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I would cut the floor and shove a 6 speed in there!
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Old 04-30-2007, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Porschephd
I would cut the floor and shove a 6 speed in there!
G50/53? What is the availability of these 993GT2 gearboxes?
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1989 930 - 3.5l - M48 - G64/51
Old 04-30-2007, 07:24 PM
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Not that great! You could use an NA and build it up or a TT and pull the nose and replace the cover. I would suggest using stronger input shafts on that one as well.
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Old 05-01-2007, 05:55 AM
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Thanks Stephen!
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:13 AM
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