Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
935TURBO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: PARIS & BURGUNDY....FRANCE
Posts: 439
Hi....some news......


I just got this from US..






..it's really well manufactured.....I'll replace the KOKELN intercooler and check the differences....?.....performances are "on the paper" normally around 30% more....wait and see....and let you know....
__________________
Serge, Gentleman Driver

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207116408000968&set=gm.1723624077 855805&type=3&theater

Last edited by 935TURBO; 08-11-2007 at 12:42 PM..
Old 08-11-2007, 12:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
A fellow Pelacanite
 
NathanUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
Garage
Where did you get that IC from?

Is it me or does the outlet end tank look like it won't work very well?
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 08-12-2007, 05:04 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,527
Garage
Looks like a Blown6 full bay unit.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 08-12-2007, 07:51 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
935TURBO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: PARIS & BURGUNDY....FRANCE
Posts: 439
Hi Nathan,
don't worry....that's only the a wrong picture.....let's see those following ones....






__________________
Serge, Gentleman Driver

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207116408000968&set=gm.1723624077 855805&type=3&theater
Old 08-12-2007, 08:09 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #24 (permalink)
A fellow Pelacanite
 
NathanUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
Garage
That looks better!
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 08-12-2007, 02:03 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,196
Only problen with that IC above is the right 1/3 will receive very little air flow.
Carefully weld in a plate in the inlet to split the air in half -
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-12-2007, 05:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
935TURBO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: PARIS & BURGUNDY....FRANCE
Posts: 439
Yes Craig...that's what I think to......but it will help to increase the flewing of the air and a little bit the decrease of the temp anyway....and the air induction on the wing will flow direct on both sides....
__________________
Serge, Gentleman Driver

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207116408000968&set=gm.1723624077 855805&type=3&theater
Old 08-13-2007, 01:30 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,196
No, I'm speaking of air within the intercooler - as is, it won't reach the right 1/3 of the intercooler worth a ***** ;-)
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-13-2007, 08:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
A fellow Pelacanite
 
NathanUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
Garage
I agree with Craig, although maybe seeing that IC from a different angle might help. Either way it is much much better than the first IC shown.
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 08-13-2007, 11:54 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #29 (permalink)
Registered User
 
E-man930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 624
Sorry Craig but that is incorrect...
Physics proves this. Simply put - path of least resistance.


If you want a refresh of what should be taken in to consideration when designing an intercooler see below.

Let's not model our concepts of the flow of air inside the intercooler based on tests of flowing water through the intercooler.
(gravity and mass play an important part of liquid state flow calculation here... remember we are dealing with gas - constantly expanding molecules that fill the space they occupy)
When dealing with gas in an environment that already sees 1 ATM pressure (remember we are not in space here) you are not introducing air into the intercooler, it is already there. You are simply adding air to the existing air... pressurizing the unit. Now within the endtanks - empty space - there is no resistance. Within the core part (or radiator) of the intercooler, the air will encounter some resistance due to the friction the air is encountering flowing against, around and through the aluminum fins inside the tubes vs the open end tanks on either end. This is actually measured as the pressure drop of the core - the difference of the pressure in vs. out. Internal ducting has very little if any effect given the above situation. This is not taking into consideration the law of convection and considering external irregular heat zones (engine) + the properties of aluminum (convection rate of the metal alloy used) that influence the interaction of gas molecules inside the unit due to thermal differences encountered by the gas, nor taking into account the temperature of the air coming out of the turbo or the velocity it achives accelerated out of the turbine unit and hurdled into the intercooler inlet. The velocity of the gas combined with the constraints (intercooler end tank) it meets does produce turbulance, and turbulance is what you may have been referring to... To avoid as much turbulence as possible the air needs to encounter as smooth a path as possible. This is why you will always see high end intercoolers devoid of sharp angles and edge - this type of design increases turbulance. Based on the smooth cast end tank design used in the construction of this unit, it should prove it to flow very uniform in direction, thus destributing the airflow rather well across the intercooler core.

Last edited by E-man930; 08-13-2007 at 05:43 PM..
Old 08-13-2007, 04:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #30 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,196
Then I guess Corky Bell who wrote "Maximum Boost" apparently doesn't know a whit about this.

He states:
IN CAP DESIGN. It is fundamantal that thermal efficiency will improve if we
can get equal distribution of airflow through the core tubes. A serious attempt
at accomplishing this can be made by suitable baffles built into the end cap.
The position of the inlet to the in-cap should receive attention in several areas.
Keep uppermost in mind the requirements of air distribution and ease of flow.

He proceeds with an illustration very similar to the intercooler above, showing a baffle to divide the incoming air.
He also shows an illustration of end cap designs, specifically listing the above style design under, and I quote, "Bad".

Ref pages 60-61, Corky Bell - Maximum Boost
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-13-2007, 07:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #31 (permalink)
Forced Induction Junkie
 
WERK I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,291
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanUK View Post
I agree with Craig, although maybe seeing that IC from a different angle might help. Either way it is much much better than the first IC shown.
+1

What we are viewing in the photos is the outlet side of the IC that feeds the throttle body. The inlet side appears to have a tapered feed, but still looks like it has some sharp 90 degree turns on that side as well. You need to reduce the number of sharp turns to reduce the amount of turbulence, which will in turn lower the pressure loss across the IC. The important factor in an IC is the temperature delta over the inlet versus outlet. Pressure delta is important, but I would rather see a improvement in the temp delta's than worry about a 1/2 pound pressure loss.
__________________
Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 08-14-2007, 07:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #32 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,196
The problem with that IC is the inlet doesn't taper like it should.

Look to a 965 intercooler for the ideal design, I think the BS full 930 could have been so much better than it is -
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-14-2007, 07:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #33 (permalink)
Registered User
 
kellcats521's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Atlanta Metro
Posts: 219
The air pushed into this I/C WILL distribute itself fairly equally throughout the inlet tank and core, assuming there is no path thru the core with less resistance than others. That is basic physics, no matter what Corkey Bell says - I really doubt that he can battle wits with Einstein and the like when dealing with gas laws.

Now, what will happen in doing this is that the force needed to push the air all the way to the right of the unit (from behind as it is mounted) will result in overall slower air flow thru the core as the entire inlet tank would need to be equilibrated 'before' air flows thru the core. (this is a generalization - air would of course begin to move into the core as it also moves from left to right in the inlrt tank, but since the tank provides MUCH less resistance to flow than the core, the tank would quickly become equilibrated then aire would move thru the entire core at equal pressure to the outlet tank) This increased time to equilibrate the inlet tank manifests itself in a bigger pressure drop than a similar I/C might have if the inlet was centered rather than offset. Also, this design will increase turbulance in the inlet tank as air is pushed to the right end, which would also increase the inlet temp., thereby also decreasing efficiency, but I'm not sure if this would even be measurable.

I doubt that even the pressure drop is significant though - I'd expect that the air is travelling sooo fast that the resistance of flow thru the core causes an almost 'instant' pressure equilibrium in the inlet tank.

Pat K
87 930
Old 08-14-2007, 10:41 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #34 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,196
The design remains far from ideal and does not even come close to what Porsche carefully thought out in concept for their 965 Intercooler - and I doubt Porsche is fulla dumb*****s.
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-14-2007, 01:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #35 (permalink)
Registered User
 
935TURBO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: PARIS & BURGUNDY....FRANCE
Posts: 439
Oh my God...!....my 930 SE is so close to his family...!....934....935....


I didn't thought they were so sisters...!.....or mother and daughter...?....incredible...!.....I'm amazed......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdJC_94ldfI








__________________
Serge, Gentleman Driver

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207116408000968&set=gm.1723624077 855805&type=3&theater
Old 09-25-2007, 02:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #36 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:46 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.