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Noah930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Los Angeles
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Sorry to hear of your troubles, pav. Again, once this is all cleared up, please come back and let us Pelicans know the names of the shop and broker involved, so that we can do our own due diligence and determine if we would want to use those establishments in the future.
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1987 Venetian Blue (really looks like grey) 930 Coupe
Old 11-11-2007, 05:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 930gt-40r View Post
that is such crap, Im a mechanic and when I quote a job for flat rate- that is the labor price. IF the book says 6 hours, then I charge six hours even if I get hosed and it takes me 8. I would b!tch-slap that guy and get my keys back.
Hit that nail right on the head. Same here. I usually quote book rate minus an hour or so on the big jobs. I stick to my quotes, eat the extra hours in the end if need be. Short term it may make me less money, but long terms keeps people happy and coming back and brings me more business
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Old 11-11-2007, 07:20 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
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Especially in this situation. $700- for a speedometer and upper steering shaft bushing is like 20 minutes worth of work, where does the price jump get justified and how does this guy say the book is wrong? And its not like quoting an exhaust manifold on a honda where bolts snap coming out (in which case you usually get .50 time units per bolt) this is interior work on a Porsche how hard is it?
I would go in there with my friend Louis and start hitting some home runs...
And yes, if you eat the few hours now, then everyone respects you and comes back.
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:02 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
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Sorry to hear about the headaches. Like many, I am an enthusiast and do not have unlimited funds to throw away. Has anyone had any success with fix it manuals such as 101 Projects for your Porsche by Wayne Dempsey?? To try to a few easier fix its on their own. Or to just educate themselves more to understand what the mechanic is talking about. I feel that in my area we have a good reputable shop but would like to try to understand the car in greater depth anyway.
I also agree with NOAH 930 to give the heads up on the shaddier shops out there.
Thanks
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Old 11-13-2007, 11:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #24 (permalink)
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Cowtown: I have done much as you have. I've bought Dempsey's book along with a number of other publications on CIS systems, Service Manuals etc. I also religiously wander through this forum along with Rennlist, RennTech, and 6 Speed reading about the various problems that occur and how the guys/gals deal with them.

I have a mechanic who's not really what you'd call a P-car mechanic, but he's honest, truthful, and very proficient at figuring out the how-to of various problems. We have an understanding that I'll bring my car to him as long as it's not something that requires special Porshe tools or specific knowledge....like a tranny fix or an engine rebuild. We have a gentleman's agreement that if the project runs into an area where he has to spend time learining how to do something, then "I dont' pay for OJT"....and he'll agree to that. If it runs into an inordinately long period of time, I feel it's only right to come to an agreement with him that compensates him for how much time he had to spend vs. what someone else with Porsche knowledge could have done in an hour.

We trust and respect each other. We can talk things thru and engage in a bit of "What do you feel comfortable for me charging you?" along with "You're the mechanic...you tell me what you think is fair". We've been doing business for years....not all based on flat rate manuals....some of it is, and some of the jobs have cost me a goodly amount.....but it's the sort of relationship that when I drive away, I don't sit there and get that God awful feeling in my gut about thinking I've been hosed AGAIN!

For instance....my neck is fused due to an old injury, so I can't look up for any period of time. I bought a set of Europipe exhausts and wanted them installed. I went to him and he threw it up on his lift and in about a little more than an hour had them installed. We went thru the usual, "it took me a little longer than a Porsche mechanic so pay me what you think is fair"....I said, "I have a $100 bill in my wallet...do you want it?".....He said...Hell yes!........and the deal was done. Someone else might have done it sooner....but I drove away happy, and he was too. My sense of his integrity was intact. He charges me $25 for an oil change if I bring the oil.....$150 for things like the 30K maintenance with a plug change, cabin filters etc. What do you think Porsche would charge for the 30K? I value our relationship and am pleased with his integrity and proficiency. That's a hard commodity to find these days, but there are still guys like Larry out there.
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Old 11-13-2007, 12:36 PM
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Even the best of mechanics seem to have their moments. Took my car to my regular wrench for three things:
1. Fix odometer
2. Oil change
3. Pass emissions

At the end of it all I get a bill for $600 - the oil change and the odometer fix. And he has the audacity to tell me the car won't pass emissions because there is no catalytic converter.

Okay, I knew about the cat. I took it off. So if he couldn't get it to pass emissions, why did he do all the other work? After the $600 bill and for almost a month I had a car with new oil, a working odometer and no way to legally drive it. It's not like the most important task wasn't highlighted.

Took the car home, built my own exhaust (with a cat), passed emissions and decided "See-ya" was the best response.
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Old 11-15-2007, 12:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah930 View Post
Sorry to hear of your troubles, pav. Again, once this is all cleared up, please come back and let us Pelicans know the names of the shop and broker involved, so that we can do our own due diligence and determine if we would want to use those establishments in the future.
As requested, here is how it turned out.

I started by posting the car for sale here (only) stating what I knew about the car. Within a few hours a first time Pelican visitor (really!!) saw my ad and contacted me. He knew the car from purchasing it (from the same previous owner) via eBay a year earlier. He returned it to Oregon from Atlanta without ever accepting shipment as he also spotted it as being a turd.

So, I had another e-mail conversation (e-mail is writing) with the previous owner and he repeatedly stated that he had told me everything he knew about the car blah, blah, blah.

The broker initially refused to accept any responsiblity, eventually (after a year and a pile of legal expenses on my and their side) offered to refund their comission. Eventually, they decided that, being an Limited Liability Corp. and rather than pay a lawyer to go to trial, they would simply fold up shop leaving nobody to pay.

The inspector refuses to accept any responsibility for anything.

A week before trial, I (not via my attorney but with his knowledge) offered to settle w/ everyone. Only the previous owner responded but convinced the broker to particitpate in settlement.

The net is I am paid $1K less than all of my expenses and lost a year and half of my time that I won't get back. The previous owner and broker paid about $14K of my expenses, the transaction price as well as their own legal expenses. The previous owner has his car on a carrier b/w here and Oregon and is trying to find a way to legally pursue the inspector.

some lessons learned:
1. get everything in writing
2. a broker's expertise may be coming from a 17 year old son
3. people will lie for money
4. a PPI can be entirely worthless
5. it's a small world
6. there are some really good people here on Pelican
7. there is no way to over-state the value of putting your own eyes and hands on a car
8. if you're right, you don't have to eat a (whole) ****e sandwich
9. attorney fees are $250/hr
10. a year and half of legal wrangling takes a toll.

Lastly, the car is a white ext./ deep blue '89 930 in Roseburg, Oregon, the shop was Auto tech in Roseburg and the broker was Lux. Car Network.

Last edited by pavulon; 11-08-2008 at 05:47 AM..
Old 11-08-2008, 05:42 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
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Caveat emptor. Sadly still relevant after so many years.
Old 11-08-2008, 06:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
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His correct course of action would have been to perhaps CALL YOU INFORMING YOU OF THE INCREASED COST
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Old 11-08-2008, 08:16 AM
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Wow that sucks!! Glad is worked out in the end.. The good news is there are plenty of 930's out there... That is why if at all possible I do everything myself ( most of it for the first time)
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Old 11-08-2008, 08:28 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #30 (permalink)
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