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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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That last bolt might be in a bind if the other 3 have been removed. Put one of the easy to get to bolts back on and try a different approach on the unfriendly one.

If you are looking for additional weight savings and more noise reduction than a Zork tube this muffler weighs 10 pounds and exits in the stock location.



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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 06-06-2007, 08:58 PM
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RarlyL8- I dig the muffler. I haven't heard the zork yet but if its too loud i will just go back to the fabspeed or make something like yours.

The bummer thing is i broke one of the studs a few months ago so i can't turn the muffler to get a better shot at the nut. I still don't think i can't get it out...so i am thinking about cutting the nut off. I am going to need replacment studs. I have a k27 hf SO if i am correct a stock stud off a 91-92 turbo (seeing how they came with a k27 from the factory). These should work right?
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/PartsLookup/search.cgi?command=show_page&Catalog_Name=911C2_USA_KATALOG&Illustration=202-16&Line_Item=4

part # OEM-90008105102

If not where could i find some studs? I might give Stephen a call if i can't find them.

Thanks in advance,

Scott
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Old 06-06-2007, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Craig 930 RS
Microfuelers? Show us pictures.
You are the CIS guru, I imagine you have seen what two fuel injectors look like? I don't have any pictures of my fuel system, just what the PO told me and my shop confirmed when they tuned it. Two extra injectors that run on boost.
Old 06-06-2007, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by cardsrule
Here in Phoenix I don't have to parallel park anywhere and I am had a pretty good track record of not backing into stuff.
Oh, that's the kiss of death. You've just tempted the Fates.

Thanks for the pics and weighings.
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Old 06-06-2007, 09:59 PM
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Noah-LOL good point, wonder if its too late to take it back.

So do you guys think theses will work?
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin...amp;Line_Item=4
I need to order something today.
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Old 06-07-2007, 05:20 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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That page comes up with an error.

Give me a holler if you decide to make a muffler like mine. I am looking to sell a few at reduced cost in order to get some feedback on the design and noise level. Most likely I can sell you mine for a better price than you could make one for.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 06-07-2007, 05:57 AM
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Yeah, I've heard of the Andial 7th injector setup.
You have two - tell us more, and where they are located?
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 06-07-2007, 07:14 AM
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The basic problem with a 1976 WUR, according to Brain Leask, is that they don't do as good a job flowing fuel under boost as the later WURs. In fact, he had my shop check the part number on my WUR, and he told them that he didn't like to modify my particular model because it is more primitive than the later WURs.

What the PO did to get around this lack of fuel flow on boost (for levels above .8 bar) was to add fuel injectors upstream which simply increase the amount of fuel according to how much vacuum is present in the fuel lines.

This is not some individual cylinder injection set up or anything fancy, it just increases the overall amount of fuel at the WUR by dumping more fuel when boost occurs. I think it is a couple extra hoses with injectors at the point it attaches to the CIS, essentially, but I've never seen it. If I was a DIY guy, I would have saved a couple grand by now!

I had my shop replace all the fuel lines when I first bought the car, and they mentioned that the set up was a professional looking install, and it works because I am able to run 1 bar with 12.3 at the rev limiter, about 7,000 rpms.

I am going to go with Imagine Auto's secret new programmable CIS system when it comes out, maybe later this month according to Stephen. I didn't ask what the price would be since Stephen doesn't really have a firm date to release it, but basically you should be able to pre-program every single RPM AFR with an ECU. If that is true, it will slaughter anything we have ever seen for CIS before......

And like you like to say, the new EFI might end up being CIS.
Old 06-07-2007, 09:31 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Quote:
I am going to go with Imagine Auto's secret new programmable CIS system when it comes out, maybe later this month according to Stephen. I didn't ask what the price would be since Stephen doesn't really have a firm date to release it, but basically you should be able to pre-program every single RPM AFR with an ECU. If that is true, it will slaughter anything we have ever seen for CIS before......

This is going to be a sensitive subject for the proponents of EFI. Tuners such as iA charge $7000+ for EFI conversions. Digital WURs have been floating around for a couple of years now. Ignoring them is going to be unavoidable, and for $1000 vs $7000 my guess is they will sell pretty well.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 06-07-2007, 09:50 AM
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Where do the injectors inject???

Sorry but:
I hope not injected into the stock 930 manifold, which was designed for air only and is marginal at best for just O2.....this makes overall AFRs look great but, man, what is each cylinder receiving?

FWIW the Leask RPM switch/WUR setup can offer an incredibly even
AFR all the way up. Easy to setup, too with a Mity-Vac. Probable cylinder-to-cylinder variations (even in my setup) are due to the above manifold uneveness.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 06-07-2007, 09:54 AM
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Brian has a valid point.
So......let's get into some controversial stuff. Off topic.

EFI offers:
1) Usually used with a Carrera manifold - great eveness between cylinders - important stuff
2) Ultra accurate fuel delivery
3) Used with a digital ignition - very precise timing

EFI downsides:
1) Constant & endless fiddling and enormous work to build a functional setup.
2) Huge cost
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 06-07-2007, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Craig 930 RS
Brian has a valid point.
So......let's get into some controversial stuff. Off topic.

EFI offers:
1) Usually used with a Carrera manifold - great eveness between cylinders - important stuff
2) Ultra accurate fuel delivery
3) Used with a digital ignition - very precise timing

EFI downsides:
1) Constant & endless fiddling and enormous work to build a functional setup.
2) Huge cost
IMO EFI is a huge waste of $$ until you cannot deliver enough fuel using CIS, which for the modified/digital WUR and Euro fuel head/lines/injectors is in the 500 fwhp range. $1000 is in the ballpark to get to this number for the fuel system, and it's well known that there are options available to both deliver enough fuel at this hp and smooth out the WUR fuel dump that many stock 930s see in the 3-4K RPM range.

Pat K
87 930
Old 06-07-2007, 11:05 AM
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EFI still has more capabilities than CIS ever will or can - but the two are now closer than ever before.

One needs to have the distributor modified for more accurate timing (vac advance/boost retard) - timing and dizzy function is often overlooked -

If you have the money, time and patience -- EFI is superior.
I have none of the 3
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 06-07-2007, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Craig 930 RS
Where do the injectors inject???

Sorry but:
I hope not injected into the stock 930 manifold, which was designed for air only and is marginal at best for just O2.....this makes overall AFRs look great but, man, what is each cylinder receiving?

FWIW the Leask RPM switch/WUR setup can offer an incredibly even
AFR all the way up. Easy to setup, too with a Mity-Vac. Probable cylinder-to-cylinder variations (even in my setup) are due to the above manifold uneveness.
Thanks for the concern, unfortunately I have told you all I know. I make sure my AFRs are accurately tuned. Delta V Motorsports tunes the car, and they took apart my fuel system and rebuilt it with new lines and they didn't have a problem with the set up.

This car has been running 1 bar or more of boost for 15 years and the leakdown was 99% according to my shop.

I will rebuild the engine soon enough, and I plan to go to the Imagine Auto CIS product and most likely have them do the rebuild.

My conceptual knowledge of the CIS system lags far behind yours. My basic understanding is that the injectors add more fuel right near the WUR, according to vacuum. My impression is that it is the same concept as a 'fuel head', but again I am out of my league on this stuff.

My engine will have shiny new 3.2 pistons one of these days, digital CIS, and all will be well!

So what about the zork tube-you never mentioned whether I am going to shoot flames around town?

Brian has a nice pipe but I need to talk to him about whether that will shoot flames.

I cannot have flames at all......piles of leaves everywhere.
Old 06-07-2007, 11:24 AM
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Just look where the 2 injectors lead to, take a pic and post it later.

Frankly this is usually not the right way to do things, but hey I am being honest and objective with regards to results seen in the past.

The thing they more than likely cannot check is fuel delivery to each cylinder...
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 06-07-2007, 11:33 AM
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Look, if it will make you happy I will order a digtial camera that I have been looking at in a mail order catalog. I live in the country so I can't just run around the corner and walk into an electronics store.

In the meantime, are you going to tell me about the zork tube shooting flames and how damn loud it is? I won't likely get a ticket for noise where I live unless it is really loud.
Old 06-07-2007, 11:50 AM
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I believe that you are likely to shoot flames from any 930 that does not have a CAT.

As you shift gears the mixture usually runs rich. When that rich mixture hits hot exhaust metal and gets an infusion of air at the end of the tailpipe you get flames. To prevent it, make sure you never spew rich exhaust from the tailpipe. That is usually done with a CAT.
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Old 06-07-2007, 12:01 PM
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Sorry the link didn't work. Try this part number- OEM-90008105102

Let me hook up the zork and see what i think of the loudness(not sure if that is a word or not)

Side note of EFI- i got IA EFI and i love it!
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Old 06-07-2007, 01:56 PM
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DDDD -

An attitude improvement would be appreciated from the people who are obviously trying to help you.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 06-07-2007, 02:15 PM
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The ability of you engine to throw flames when the throttle is chopped depends on many things. You must have a significant excess of fuel built up in the exhaust, you must have a turbo hot enough to set the excess gas off, and you must have an exhaust system hot enough to maintain the burn.
The muffler will definitely influence the result. A Zork Tube is the best exhaust for throwing flames, a full US 1986 stock exhaust is the best for not throwing flames.

My exhaust will likely not throw flames from a CIS engine due to the length of the tail pipe. Zork Tubes are very loud, mine is muscle-car loud without having the neighbors throw rocks at you. You buy it and don't like it for any reason (such as flame throwing) just send the undamaged unit back to me and I'll refund your purchase price. Fair enough?

I have a Zork Tube for sale as well :

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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 06-07-2007, 02:58 PM
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