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Macht Schnell
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maxx1
Les,

Actually, this car as tight and nicely restored as it is, seems to be a fairly good deal....maybe not a HELL of a deal, but not bad at all.

Let me ask you this;

Assuming I would have a problem getting the car titled in Oh. What would it take to get it Federalized after all these years? I'm talking expense wise and who would even do the work?

The way I see it, the car is 25 years old and is going to be exempt from smog laws and all that other crap by getting a Historic plate. I do know that the State of Ohio requires an inspection in order to get it titled, but usually that involves a visual match between the car VIN # and whats on the title... that's it.

Concerning selling it in the future. If someone out of State buys it.... they will be responsible for having if Federalized if needed... and that will be part of the deal. They will be told up front they will have to check it out first before they give me their money. I don't really see any big problem, but never the less you brought up a very valid point and I appreciate the information. I'll check more in depth and post the results.

It does look like a nice car. I could't quote wht it would cost. I know mine had the instruments changed, at least the speedo. It had smog pump, thermal reactors, Lambda sensors, air injectors in the exhaust. I'm sure there was a plethora of other junk, like ride height. All of that was stripped off of mine when I bought it. I think it would be pricey, and from one of the previous posts it seems that not all of this stuff was converted like it should have been. Like my switches have European pictograms, etc. Basically getting the federalization done is a load of BS. I'm not sure anyone would know how to do it anymore since after 85 it was no longer necessary on the 930. Good luck, nice car!

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 06-16-2007, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by les_garten
It does look like a nice car. I could't quote wht it would cost. I know mine had the instruments changed, at least the speedo. It had smog pump, thermal reactors, Lambda sensors, air injectors in the exhaust. I'm sure there was a plethora of other junk, like ride height. All of that was stripped off of mine when I bought it. I think it would be pricey, and from one of the previous posts it seems that not all of this stuff was converted like it should have been. Like my switches have European pictograms, etc. Basically getting the federalization done is a load of BS. I'm not sure anyone would know how to do it anymore since after 85 it was no longer necessary on the 930. Good luck, nice car!

Les

Thanks,

I called 3 different DMV locations and asked if after 25 years the car still needed the Federalization papers? All 3 responses were; "If the car has a valid PA title, no. The car has been through the process and all we need to do is check the mileage, vin# against the title and model #". I think I'm going to go ahead and buy this one. I'll post later once I get it and spend some time with it.
Old 06-19-2007, 03:20 AM
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That's a nice looking car. Good luck.
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Old 06-19-2007, 05:37 AM
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I have an 82 930 that I bought about 1.5 years ago here in Virginia. It had a Virginia title, and since I too live in VA I got a new title from the VA DMV when I bought it. When I went to the DMV to get the new title and new plates no one asked if the car had been federalized. My assumption is they could see it had been emissions inspected several times in the past and if they had any doubts that probably was enought to convince them, pure speculation on my part. In VA we do emissions every two years, the car's records contained several receipts for the testing from past years and emissions were valid when I bought the car. Emissions testing is not required now that it is 25 model years old, thank you VA DMV. But I have regular plates, not classic, so I have to get it safety inspected annually, just did it, no problems. So at least in VA it should not be a problem to registed an 82 Turbo.

How about getting a copy of the present owner's PA title and take it to your Ohio DMV and ask them if there would be any issues registering the car as a classic in Ohio. They can run the VIN and give you a firm answer that would end speculation. Seems the easiest thing to do, feel sure they would not mind doing it. Best of luck!
Old 07-07-2007, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mschnittker
I have an 82 930 that I bought about 1.5 years ago here in Virginia. It had a Virginia title, and since I too live in VA I got a new title from the VA DMV when I bought it. When I went to the DMV to get the new title and new plates no one asked if the car had been federalized. My assumption is they could see it had been emissions inspected several times in the past and if they had any doubts that probably was enought to convince them, pure speculation on my part. In VA we do emissions every two years, the car's records contained several receipts for the testing from past years and emissions were valid when I bought the car. Emissions testing is not required now that it is 25 model years old, thank you VA DMV. But I have regular plates, not classic, so I have to get it safety inspected annually, just did it, no problems. So at least in VA it should not be a problem to registed an 82 Turbo.

How about getting a copy of the present owner's PA title and take it to your Ohio DMV and ask them if there would be any issues registering the car as a classic in Ohio. They can run the VIN and give you a firm answer that would end speculation. Seems the easiest thing to do, feel sure they would not mind doing it. Best of luck!
A couple of points here:

I bought my Car with clear long standing title in Louisiana. It had been titled in Arkansas before that. I had been titled in the US for 15 years with no problems in two different states. I move to AL and get ambushed, I can't title it unless I can Show Federalization. They don't even test emissions or safety in AL. Another point to consider, who cares if it has ever passed emissions? Federalization is about more than Emissions only, so the fact it has passed an emissions test doesn't mean anything if an agency is requesting Federalization. It's titled in FL now, and they never asked.

It's a crapshoot, if you are going to keep the car FOREVER and never live anywhere else, no problemmo. If you are going to sell the car, Federalized Gray Market cars go cheaper, and non federalized Gray Market cars are a real risk. That's why I said above, to get it for a hell of a deal. Looks like a great car though.

Here is a common Myth:
"Papers, Papers, we don't need no stinkin' papers"

Just my .02

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT

Last edited by les_garten; 07-07-2007 at 11:42 AM..
Old 07-07-2007, 11:31 AM
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Unless you live in California this is a non issue. 15 years ago was a different story. If you live in California you will have to change the fuel head, exhaust and many other silly things like a the AIR pump. This would be cost prohibitive 99.99% of the time unless your talking about a car with 15 k or less miles and in absolutely mint shape. I think you'd hard pressed to make a healthy grey market turbo pass California emissions for less than 6 k in work.
Old 07-07-2007, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tonypeoni
Unless you live in California this is a non issue. 15 years ago was a different story. If you live in California you will have to change the fuel head, exhaust and many other silly things like a the AIR pump. This would be cost prohibitive 99.99% of the time unless your talking about a car with 15 k or less miles and in absolutely mint shape. I think you'd hard pressed to make a healthy grey market turbo pass California emissions for less than 6 k in work.
Sorry, but you are 100 % WRONG. My car had been titled for 15 years prior to the debacle I went thru in AL. The time frame I am talking about here was in 2003. I have no idea how many other states this could happen in. I certainly didn't expect it in AL. Telling this gent it is a non issue is inconsistent with my ACTUAL experience. I was lucky, my car had been federalized. I just had to hunt down the paperwork for a year or so.

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 07-07-2007, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by les_garten
Sorry, but you are 100 % WRONG. My car had been titled for 15 years prior to the debacle I went thru in AL. The time frame I am talking about here was in 2003. I have no idea how many other states this could happen in. I certainly didn't expect it in AL. Telling this gent it is a non issue is inconsistent with my ACTUAL experience. I was lucky, my car had been federalized. I just had to hunt down the paperwork for a year or so.

Les
I don't think hes talking about bring a car over from Europe. If your car was already federalized what possible problem could you have run into besides emissions. In most states at the age of 30 these cars are exempt or nearly.
Old 07-07-2007, 02:11 PM
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This is what you want to look for it should be located on the door strike panel. Honestly your state of Ohio is full of grey market porches I wouldn't worry too much. California and maybe New Jersey are the potential problem states.

Last edited by tonypeoni; 07-07-2007 at 02:39 PM..
Old 07-07-2007, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tonypeoni
I don't think hes talking about bring a car over from Europe. If your car was already federalized what possible problem could you have run into besides emissions. In most states at the age of 30 these cars are exempt or nearly.
Hi Tony,
He knows the car he is thinking of buying is not federalized. I can tell you from ACTUAL experience, that he can not get a Tag in AL. It won't happen. I went thru the mill with them about everywhere it had been registered, BLAH BLAH BLAH. They knew it was Gray Market and for it to be in the US and get a registration it wold HAVE to have been federalized. Once I showed them the papers, it was fine, no papers, not tag. Simple as that. I'm not guessing, I'm not supposing, I'm not lying, I'm staing FACT from ACTUAL experience.
Can you say as a FACT that he can take an UnFederalized car and get it registered in all 50 states? I don't think so. My point is that I have run into an ACTUAL issue with a DMV that knows the law. Strange that it occured in AL, but so be it. AL would not settle for the plate on th door r anything else. I had to show them a REAM of documents.

Respectfully, I feel you are being disingenuous if you don't KNOW anything about this, and SAY you should be OK and it is not an issue. He will not be able to drive that car in AL. My question is how many other states that could occur in? I have ACTUAL EXPERIENCE with this issue, and it is relatively recent. That's the reason why I thought I would warn him.

Let's say he bought this car and moved to Wisconsin and went thru an Experience like I went thru and could not register his car with the DMV. He then reported back here the same situation I went thru except he didn't have the docs to get it registered and didn't know the Governor to get a pardon.

What would your reply be then?

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 07-07-2007, 02:42 PM
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I dont doubt what your saying but you were just unfortunate. I want to say 30% if not more of 930s in the U.S. are grey market. Heck my 83 512 BBi had to be federalized and it was sold new at Ferrari of Beverly hills. How did you prove this? How did you find the paperwork after that amount of time?
Old 07-07-2007, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tonypeoni
I dont doubt what your saying but you were just unfortunate. I want to say 30% if not more of 930s in the U.S. are grey market. Heck my 83 512 BBi had to be federalized and it was sold new at Ferrari of Beverly hills. How did you prove this? How did you find the paperwork after that amount of time?
Hi,
We are not talking about Gray Market cars. Those cars are fine if they have been federalized. His car has not been federalized, it is Illegal to operate that car in the US. A Gray Market car is one that was not meant for sale in the US. To legally import a Gray market car it must be converted to US spec, aka federalization like mine was. I had to do title searches until I located the original title. On hat title was the dealership who sold it, they gave me the importer. He had all the EPA docs and DOT documentation about the conversion process. There is probably an easier way to do it.
I have no issue with Gray Market cars, but they SHOULD have gone thru the EPA/DOT process of getting their papers. A Gray Market Car that was not Federalized would be worthless to me if I intended to drive it on the street. I would not buy it, because it would be illegal. There is no telling when that bomb would hit you. Basically I am not convinced there is forgiveness for Illegal cars. I believe that an UnFederalized car would always be illegal in AL ad infinitum. That car he is looking at is Illegal in every state in my opinion, how many will question it, that's the crapshoot. Any 80-85 930 that was not federalized was Illegally imported. I don't believe there has been a law that forgives this. It is not an emissions thing, it is a Legally imported thing.

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 07-07-2007, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by les_garten
Hi,
We are not talking about Gray Market cars. Those cars are fine if they have been federalized. His car has not been federalized, it is Illegal to operate that car in the US. A Gray Market car is one that was not meant for sale in the US. To legally import a Gray market car it must be converted to US spec, aka federalization like mine was. I had to do title searches until I located the original title. On hat title was the dealership who sold it, they gave me the importer. He had all the EPA docs and DOT documentation about the conversion process. There is probably an easier way to do it.
I have no issue with Gray Market cars, but they SHOULD have gone thru the EPA/DOT process of getting their papers. A Gray Market Car that was not Federalized would be worthless to me if I intended to drive it on the street. I would not buy it, because it would be illegal. There is no telling when that bomb would hit you. Basically I am not convinced there is forgiveness for Illegal cars. I believe that an UnFederalized car would always be illegal in AL ad infinitum. That car he is looking at is Illegal in every state in my opinion, how many will question it, that's the crapshoot. Any 80-85 930 that was not federalized was Illegally imported. I don't believe there has been a law that forgives this. It is not an emissions thing, it is a Legally imported thing.

Les
Oh well, for whatever it's worth, the car at this point is a limited use, classic / historical vehicle with my State's blessings. I was originally concerned and crossed checked several times with different authorities, but it's clearly not a problem on a 25 year old car in most States. Maybe it was Federalized at one time or maybe not, or maybe set back to Euro specs after the fact? ... you almost sound like some kind of EPA cop If I can get ahold of the second owner, I'll see what I can find out, the more info I can get on the car, the better. For now, I'll enjoy it and when time comes to sell, I doubt I'll have a problem.
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82 Porsche 930 Euro, black, 31K miles.
Factory stock other than k27 turbo, B&B headers, GHL exhaust, Tial F40, 1 bar wastegate, MSD 6A ignition, 8" and 9" Fuch upgrade, H4 Xenon headlamps and a 930S steering wheel.

Last edited by Maxx1; 07-07-2007 at 08:19 PM..
Old 07-07-2007, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maxx1
Oh well, for whatever it's worth, the car at this point is a limited use, classic / historical vehicle with my State's blessings. I was originally concerned and crossed checked several times with different authorities, but it's clearly not a problem on a 25 year old car in most States. Maybe it was Federalized at one time or maybe not, or maybe set back to Euro specs after the fact? ... you almost sound like some kind of EPA cop If I can get ahold of the second owner, I'll see what I can find out, the more info I can get on the car, the better. For now, I'll enjoy it and when time comes to sell, I doubt I'll have a problem.
Good Luck! I had access to the Docs and it was a nightmare. I didn't read the original posts again, but I thought you stated it had not been federalized. That's why I posted. If it has been than no worries, you could get them. Mine is 22 years old and I hit a Brick wall. I also had no problems in 3 states. Ahhh, but the fourth one was a *****.

That's my point, the fourth state. I was ignorant and blissful up to then.

Anyway, enjoy the car, my posting had nothing to do with the quality of the car. It also was not personal.

I only tried to advise you of my DIRECT and ACTUAL experience. You can shoot the messenger but the message is still the same, if your car was not Federalized it is in this country Illegally, and you don't know if this will affect you or not till it happens.

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 07-07-2007, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maxx1
Oh well, for whatever it's worth, the car at this point is a limited use, classic / historical vehicle with my State's blessings. I was originally concerned and crossed checked several times with different authorities, but it's clearly not a problem on a 25 year old car in most States. Maybe it was Federalized at one time or maybe not, or maybe set back to Euro specs after the fact? ... you almost sound like some kind of EPA cop If I can get ahold of the second owner, I'll see what I can find out, the more info I can get on the car, the better. For now, I'll enjoy it and when time comes to sell, I doubt I'll have a problem.
Ohhh, and one more thing. The reason I sound like the EPA police is that I have had some experience with them!

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 07-07-2007, 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by les_garten
Ohhh, and one more thing. The reason I sound like the EPA police is that I have had some experience with them!

Les
I know, you had to jump through a lot of hoops and I don't blame you a bit. At least you got it ironed out properly.
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Old 07-08-2007, 04:24 AM
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