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Lightbulb What's the max RWHP horsepower that the 3.3 can make?

I am curious if anyone has a breakdown of incremental mods that step the RWHP of the 930 up to it's maxium level? As a side note, at what point does the clutch need beefed up and how much hp / torque is the 4 speed gearbox and transaxle good for?

.... and on a more practical level, how much HP can be made before splitting the cases?
Old 06-18-2007, 05:21 AM
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Your question is impossible to answer. I'm sure the 3.3L engine gould take 1000HP a few seconds before it splits its own case.

The rod bolts and head studs will be the weak link of the stock case.
I would guess they can safely take 400HP for the long haul, much more for a shorter duration.
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Old 06-18-2007, 05:58 AM
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I'm not sure about the 930 but we pull 623rwhp on STOCK rods, Stock main bearings and the case was never open previously to that.

I'm not sure why will the case open with 1,000hp
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Old 06-18-2007, 09:36 AM
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The 4 speed tranny is good for 600 to 700 hp. This is evidenced by the fact that Porsche built factory race cars with that power, and used the 930 tranny. Also, Porsche supposedly built in a 50% margin of power into all their engine systems, so you multiply the output of the stock 3.3 by two and get at least 600 hp.

Your clutch probably won't hold over 400-450 or so hp in the long run.

600-700 hp will not split the cases.
Old 06-18-2007, 10:22 AM
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I saw an article who said that the stock case hase been desingned to support around 850....!......but that's for the engne case...not for the engine...!

The probleme is that with KOKELN intercooler, stock CIS, KN high flow intake and K29 turbo, zork pipe + some other details,.......with 1.6 bar (vdo on dashboard).....the head of the cylinder 5 had the stock studs broken...!!!!!....for only a few runs......so...there's now work on the table....!!!!
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Old 06-18-2007, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Your question is impossible to answer. I'm sure the 3.3L engine gould take 1000HP a few seconds before it splits its own case.
That was meant as a joke, Juan. At high boost/HP levels the stock case is likely to bust itself wide open. I have a case in my garage that demonstrates that point very well.

To get a good answer for these questions you really need to qualify them, such as "how much HP can a stock short block handle for xx amount of miles before needing a rebuild".

Given a question like that I believe you could get 50,000+ street miles out of a stock short block pushing 400FWHP.

Then there is track use vs street use ...........................
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 06-18-2007, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DDDD
The 4 speed tranny is good for 600 to 700 hp. This is evidenced by the fact that Porsche built factory race cars with that power, and used the 930 tranny. Also, Porsche supposedly built in a 50% margin of power into all their engine systems, so you multiply the output of the stock 3.3 by two and get at least 600 hp.

Your clutch probably won't hold over 400-450 or so hp in the long run.

600-700 hp will not split the cases.
That sounds reasonable. I just thought there would be some people here who have modded their 930s and had them dynoed.

My buddy has a TT Supra and says guys are getting 600 hp out of that motor pretty easy. His in fact is close to 600 hp with one large turbo, modded intercooler, adjustable boost controller and of course a beefy clutch. I don't know the details but have driven the car and it's pretty crazy.

While I don't care to ever own a TT Supra, I was hoping the Porsches engine was beefy enough to provide the same level of performance.....just to know it can be done would be cool.
Old 06-18-2007, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by juan ruiz
I'm not sure about the 930 but we pull 623rwhp on STOCK rods, Stock main bearings and the case was never open previously to that.
Hi Juan, I admire your videos, thanks for sharing them with us.

Was that with stock rods & rod bolts ?
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Old 06-18-2007, 03:48 PM
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There is a guy over on rennlist who has 733rwhp from his 930. Drives it on the street.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

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Old 06-18-2007, 03:53 PM
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Don't fret Maxx1, though you may be down on hp your way down on weight too. If your planning to drag a Supra......maybe you ought to get a 996TT or a Z06.

If you hope to have more fun and out run it on anything more than a straight, you'll have little trouble.
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Old 06-18-2007, 04:19 PM
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A bit of comparative math

A Mark IV supra Turbo weighs 1580kg
at 600hp thats 379 hp per 1000kg

A 1987 Porsche 930 weighs 1283kg
at 486hp thats 379 hp/1000kg

You would need a 1005hp Supra just to match the power to weight ratio of that 733 hp 930
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Old 06-18-2007, 04:42 PM
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And then there's the issue of who's dyno you're using - lot's of suspect numbers out there.
Old 06-18-2007, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rotorhead
A bit of comparative math

A Mark IV supra Turbo weighs 1580kg
at 600hp thats 379 hp per 1000kg

A 1987 Porsche 930 weighs 1283kg
at 486hp thats 379 hp/1000kg

You would need a 1005hp Supra just to match the power to weight ratio of that 733 hp 930
Excellent point. I didn't realize there was that much weight differential.
Old 06-18-2007, 06:21 PM
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Old 06-18-2007, 06:40 PM
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Maxx - there is a fellow here in town who professionally drag races his daily driver, a Supra. He drives this car every day to work, rain or shine. He has driven the car over 2000 miles at a time to compete in national drag racing events. He DRIVES the car to these events.

Now for the drum roll

The car laid down 1135RWHP on the local dyno.
That number is NOT a typo. He runs the 1/4 in the 8s on street tires.
Google Gary White and you'll get your proof.

A 930 can't touch that, no way no how, for 10 times the money. If you're looking for a low dollar high HP car then buy a Supra.

Ask Juan, he'll fill you in on the shortcomings of drag racing a 911 competitively.
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Old 06-18-2007, 07:00 PM
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For normal human beings, the 930 can be as fast as you want it to be.

If your only goal is to drag race, the supra has advantages when highly modified.

Porsches can lose a lot of weight even though they start out light weight. If you buy an old 911 frame to start with and build a car around it, you can have a 1900-2000 pound car with a roll cage. You can put any engine in that and it will go, let alone a 700 hp engine.

The advantage the supra has is at very very high boost levels it will hold up better and the clutch is better for drag starts.

Everything else is more enjoyable in a 911, if that is what you like in the first place, and you can achieve insane levels of performance for all but the most crazy drag racers, the type guys that will never be satisfied anyway.
Old 06-18-2007, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RarlyL8
Maxx - there is a fellow here in town who professionally drag races his daily driver, a Supra. He drives this car every day to work, rain or shine. He has driven the car over 2000 miles at a time to compete in national drag racing events. He DRIVES the car to these events.

Now for the drum roll

The car laid down 1135RWHP on the local dyno.
That number is NOT a typo. He runs the 1/4 in the 8s on street tires.
Google Gary White and you'll get your proof.

A 930 can't touch that, no way no how, for 10 times the money. If you're looking for a low dollar high HP car then buy a Supra.

Ask Juan, he'll fill you in on the shortcomings of drag racing a 911 competitively.
I know that motor can make some serious power.... I wasn't doubting that ... ( I've heard 1000 HP ) but yeah, the car is seriously over engineered. I was just curious about the 930 since I am getting one .... just to know what the potential is. I would be plenty happy with 400 - 500 on the street .... I'm not out to race anyone or prove anything, but just to entertain myself more than anything
Old 06-18-2007, 08:11 PM
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400-500HP for a 930 is almost common in the world of normal mods.

Let me throw something else in the mix for you to chew on.
Torque.
What a lot of folks don't understand or don't realize is that the 930 engine is capable of laying down some serious torque at a very low RPM. You can win many street battles that on paper should not have been won because of the long flat torque curve these monsters have.

For example, I know of a certain 911Turbo laying down a little shy of 400RWHP that recently spanked a 500HP Z06 in an agreed upon drag race, even after a boggled shift. 400+ ft/lb of torque from 2500rpm to redline can bring down a lot of iron!

There are lots of threads that will tell you what it takes to get to 500HP.
Basically it's EFI and headwork in combination with a big turbo and headers. Just be sure to bring a big bag of cash.
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Old 06-18-2007, 08:51 PM
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Remember that weight loss is the secret ace up the sleeve of all 911's.

EVERY single part on these cars except the frame can be bought relatively cheaply out of carbon fibre. From fenders to roof to dashboard, you can loose as much weight as your budget allows.

In fact, you should seriously consider doing that BEFORE doing the engine, because weight loss gives better handling, better gas mileage, better braking and yeah better acceleration. A 930 handles over .95 G in the corner with just the Fuchs 16" rims and 225/245 tires. Less weight and it will handle even better.
Old 06-18-2007, 09:04 PM
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438 rwhp with CIS (something above 500 FWHP) here.
Reliable, smooth AFR curve (absolutely essential).

Keep the fuel accurate and you can do freaking amazing things with these engines...
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Old 06-18-2007, 09:09 PM
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