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Ultimate EFI thread?

So I'm thinking about eventually moving over to an EFI system and I know there's alot of things posted but wanted to have a thread where it's all in one place..
Here's what's on my list, wondered with which ones it's possible. Some of my wish list is from my knowledge of what was possible with custom chips for my A4

I'd like to start with just distributor elimination them move to the fuel system later.. Is this possible ??

Would like a number of profiles ( race fuel, cheap gas, valet mode maybe??).

Turbo boost control ??

Most cost effective?

Best support network ??

Looking forward to responses..
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"Todd"
98 Tahoe ,2007 Saturn Vue
86 930 black and stock, 80 930 blue tracdog
91 Spec Miata (yeah I race a chick car)
"life"ll kill ya" Warren Zevon
Old 06-28-2007, 08:25 AM
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ok ,, maybe the ultimate dead efi thread ?
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"Todd"
98 Tahoe ,2007 Saturn Vue
86 930 black and stock, 80 930 blue tracdog
91 Spec Miata (yeah I race a chick car)
"life"ll kill ya" Warren Zevon
Old 06-28-2007, 08:57 PM
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You will need the ECU, crank trigger kit and coil pack to run the ignition part first and run the fuel part later. BUT Why just the ignition part when you can do everything at once.
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1975 914, 1988 944 turbo S sold.
1986 944 turbo resleeve 2.7, DTA S-60 PRO.
1986 911 Carrera with 965 turbo motor, DTA S-80 PRO.
1989 930 EFI, DTA, Carrera intake, twinturbo,2x GT-35R.
1991 964 convertible, wide body conversion.
Old 06-28-2007, 11:39 PM
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Was thinking I could ease into it.. ( both price and scope of project)
I was looking at what goingsuperfast has to offer and am now wondering if you don't need to switch out the intake with one from a Carrera?
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"Todd"
98 Tahoe ,2007 Saturn Vue
86 930 black and stock, 80 930 blue tracdog
91 Spec Miata (yeah I race a chick car)
"life"ll kill ya" Warren Zevon
Old 06-29-2007, 06:51 AM
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Hi, I am the guy from goingsuperfast. if you go to my old web page about EFI 930 you will see all the parts you need to do the work. http://www.goingsuperfast.com/EFI930.html the hardest part of the hardware installation is taking the crank pulley out and install the one with trigger wheel. after the crank pulley, takes about 4 - 6 hours to finish the hardware installation. ( it is easier for me because I built it ). With DTA ECU takes about 15 minutes to start the engine.
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1975 914, 1988 944 turbo S sold.
1986 944 turbo resleeve 2.7, DTA S-60 PRO.
1986 911 Carrera with 965 turbo motor, DTA S-80 PRO.
1989 930 EFI, DTA, Carrera intake, twinturbo,2x GT-35R.
1991 964 convertible, wide body conversion.
Old 06-29-2007, 08:04 AM
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I've got some time to kill, so I'll take a shot, but don't be surprised if I need to come back and make a bunch of changes .

Inputs:
Reference signal (RPM) from crank or flywheel trigger or from distributor.
Sync signal from cam or distributor for sequential injection usually set about 60 BTDC.
Throttle Postion Sensor (can be sole load input for Alpha-N)
Manifold Air Pressure Sensor (MAP for load calculation or for fuel enrichment on a turbo car, 1 bar for NA, 3 bar for Turbo, port on manifold where it won't be affected by flow, i.e. not on the TB)
Barometric Air Pressure (BAP, used by Motec, place in driver compartment)
Engine temperature (I put mine on the breather cover on top of the engine)
Intake temperature (before TB and after intercooler on turbo car, best to place in the middle of tubing run so air flow is smooth, fast acting sensor works best but costs the most)

Outputs:
Injectors (6 outputs for sequential, 3 split for batch)
Ignition (1 for distributor, 3 or 6 for wasted spark or coil on plug)
Fuel pump relays

Optional outputs:
Lambda heater
Boost controller
Idle air controller
Check engine light
shift light
nitrous
intercooler sprayer

Optional inputs:
Wide band Lambda sensor (some ECU's can read them and data log for tuning, place a few inches after turbo)
Oil pressure
Fuel pressure
Before intercooler temp
Cylinder head temp
Wheel speed
Hidden disable switch
Hidden RPM limit switch
Hidden boost limit switch

Ignition options:
Distributor and single CDI with advance controlled by ECU
Dual distributor and dual CDI's with advance contolled by ECU
Single plug waste spark with 3 dual coils and 3 or 4 output CDI or 3 ignitors with advance controlled by ECU.
Twin plug waste spark with 6 dual coils and 3 or 4 output CDI or 6 ignitors with advance controlled by ECU.
6 or 12 coil on plug with 6 or 12 ignitors separate or built in like LS1 Delcos.
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Old 06-29-2007, 08:29 AM
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Does the DTA support multiple profiles?? What about boost control ?
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"Todd"
98 Tahoe ,2007 Saturn Vue
86 930 black and stock, 80 930 blue tracdog
91 Spec Miata (yeah I race a chick car)
"life"ll kill ya" Warren Zevon
Old 06-29-2007, 08:34 AM
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Ok, I'll bite, since I have a DTA Pro8 ECU on my 930.

The DTA does support boost control and I have mine working very nicely with it.

But I'm not sure what you mean by multiple profiles. If you mean different maps, the answer is -- sort of. Unlike the Motec, you can't install a switch on the dash and go from map to map. But in a matter of seconds, you can hook up the laptop and send a different map to the ECU.

Nice as it sounds to just flip a switch, I think having the ability to do this is a bit overrated. As is a valet switch! (No valet, ever, is going to drive my 930. Never. I don't even let them drive my 10 year old Jeep. Why would I want a switch to kill the boost when the only person who will ever drive this car is me or someone I trust to respect the potential). To rotate a knob on the dash for a different map sounds cool, but how often would you actually do that? I have three maps for my car -- street, track and higher boost for the track. The latter two require race gas. To go from a street to a track map involves more than just a software change. It involves using a different fuel. And running on the track may require other vehicle configuration changes (shock settings, tires, etc.) And I'll want my laptop with me anyway. So it's no sweat to hook it up and deliberately load the map I want. The Motec is a perfectly fine ECU, and you may choose it for one reason or another, but I don't consider the multiple map feature to be particularly valuable.

Likewise, I don't consider the two-piece harness to be a particularly good idea either, but that's another discussion.

Rob

Last edited by Rob 930; 06-29-2007 at 09:01 AM..
Old 06-29-2007, 08:58 AM
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Race911turbo,

I'm chuckling about your time estimates. You must work a lot faster than I do! It took me many months of evenings and weekends to do what took you 4 to 6 hours. And that's apart from the two years it took me to build the engine so it could accommodate, take advantage of, and monitor the engine and management system. I bet I spent 4 to 6 hours just boxing up the engine parts that got shipped to specialists all over the country. I wouldn't be surpised if I have 800 hours in my project. But that included a full crank-up rebuild, custom everything from air cleaner to exhaust tip, chassis prep for the new engine, including mounting two oil coolers, engine dyno tuning in a far away place, and all the other details that I considered desirable for making it right. Clearly, one doesn't have to spend as long as I did. But 4 to 6 hours? C'mon...

Rob
Old 06-29-2007, 09:19 AM
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Rob,

I did it so many times I can do it with one eye closed. ( Sorry about the bad joke.)

4 - 6 hours just for the hardware after the pulley is installed and CIS stuff took out.

4 - 6 hours includes
fitting for both side of fuel filter, fuel line from fuel filter to fuel rail, cross fuel line from left bank to right bank, lower set of gasket on the cylinder head, fuel block, top set of gasket on the fuel block, tap the mount for air temp sensor tap the mount for oil ( water ) sensor, tap the mount for boost sensor, mount the fuel injectors, mount the coil pack at the factory distributor, install spark plug wires. plug in all the sensor connectors.

I did it with in 4 hours while the car is park outside of the machine shop.
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1975 914, 1988 944 turbo S sold.
1986 944 turbo resleeve 2.7, DTA S-60 PRO.
1986 911 Carrera with 965 turbo motor, DTA S-80 PRO.
1989 930 EFI, DTA, Carrera intake, twinturbo,2x GT-35R.
1991 964 convertible, wide body conversion.
Old 06-29-2007, 09:39 AM
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Took me
6 hours to build the wire harness,
2 hours to install the wire harnes with relay and fuse.
lots of time tuning it. especially the idle map. I am using 3.2 idle control valve.
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1975 914, 1988 944 turbo S sold.
1986 944 turbo resleeve 2.7, DTA S-60 PRO.
1986 911 Carrera with 965 turbo motor, DTA S-80 PRO.
1989 930 EFI, DTA, Carrera intake, twinturbo,2x GT-35R.
1991 964 convertible, wide body conversion.
Old 06-29-2007, 09:46 AM
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Rob 930, thanks!! so you'd reccomend it I take it.. I agree with you , the laptop map switch wouldn't be a big deal..
Just out of curiousity, what kind of gas mileage do you get on the street ( assuming you're not wailing on it). My 80 sucks,, the 86 (stock) gets pretty good ( like 19 - 20).
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98 Tahoe ,2007 Saturn Vue
86 930 black and stock, 80 930 blue tracdog
91 Spec Miata (yeah I race a chick car)
"life"ll kill ya" Warren Zevon
Old 06-29-2007, 09:47 AM
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9dreizig,

Sure, I'd recommend any ECU for which you have support. My tuner was in Reno. Are you in Carson City? If so, you might talk to him -- Dave Capurro at C&C Automotive. He specializes in DTA. But if you're elsewhere, pick someone who is comfortable with a particular brand, then go with that brand. I would buy the ECU from the tuner you choose. For the few dollars more it may cost you, it buys you advice and goodwill that will pay you back very quickly.

I frankly have no idea what my gas mileage is. I don't drive it enough under regular conditions to know.

Rob
Old 06-29-2007, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rob 930
9dreizig,

pick someone who is comfortable with a particular brand, then go with that brand. I would buy the ECU from the tuner you choose. For the few dollars more it may cost you, it buys you advice and goodwill that will pay you back very quickly.

Best advice I've read in a long time....

I have no idea how many hours I have in my EFI conversion. I know I couldn't do a conversion (assuming a solid motor to start with) in 6 - 8 hours. More like 60 - 80 hours start to finish. In fact, I am helping turbobrat install his EFI conversion in the next 30 days - maybe I'll keep track.
Old 06-29-2007, 06:16 PM
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I've got some time to kill, so I'll take a shot, but don't be surprised if I need to come back and make a bunch of changes .

Thanks David!! This is really educational!
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"Todd"
98 Tahoe ,2007 Saturn Vue
86 930 black and stock, 80 930 blue tracdog
91 Spec Miata (yeah I race a chick car)
"life"ll kill ya" Warren Zevon
Old 06-29-2007, 07:29 PM
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