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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
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Hello, from UK, lots of questions regarding turbo charging a 3.2 carrera!

Well where do i start? After having trawled every Uk web page going I found absolutely zero information regarding turbocharging my 3.2! Luckily I stumbled across this forum. I have a standard 3.2 carrera that I have widebodied, RHD converted (german import) GT3 brakes all round, Bilsteins , turbo 2 wheels etc.

My next step is to turbocharge the 3.2, and so I have a few questions you may be able to help me with. I have seen lots of info about oil returns, which is great, which leads to my first question. Where do i take the feed from? I would have thought tapping from the oild pressure switch area is generally the best thought, but correct me if I'm wrong?

Next question... I have a GT35R I'm using , I also have Autronic SM4 management. On the mid 80's 3.3's I notice they use the intermediate pipe straight into the turbocharger with the original heat exchangers and cross over pipe. On alot of the pictures from this site, you use a set of parellel heat exchangers to the turbo and then a seperate external waste gate pipe. Is it a large restriction using the original heat exchangers with a suitable flange? Or shall I purchase a similar set to the ones I see on here?

Finally I'm using a 915 3.2 box. Will this stand 450/500lb/ft of torque? or will it rip it to shreds?

There are far more questions I have but these are the main 3 I need awnsering at the moment. I'm sorry if they sound so basic, I have built some pretty quick cars before, but never really played with porsches (this is my first one). Many thanks in advance for any help towards my project, I will be hopefully buying parts from the states as they are so much cheaper than in the UK!! (and people here seem to know what they are doing!)

cheers

Rich
Old 07-27-2007, 02:51 PM
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Hi Rich,

There are several guy's here that have turbo'd their 3.2's. One is, user i.d., WydRyd. He is here in Oz but has done an exemplary job on his 3.2. You might be able to pm him. Only one that springs to mind.

Good luck
Cheers
Scot
Old 07-27-2007, 04:38 PM
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tons of threads on this even in this forum. search jbrinkley , Me(mb911) and phil(his screen name escapes me) mine was a 3.0sc and upe'd to a 3.2 ss so I use a different management system then the 3.2s so I did not have to use a rising rate fuel pressure regulator like the 3.2 guys do.. a gt35r will be nice.. the 915 won't handle that much hp without major work let me know if you have any specific questions
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Old 07-27-2007, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich911 View Post
Well where do i start?
Here's a good place - welcome!

Quote:
Finally I'm using a 915 3.2 box. Will this stand 450/500lb/ft of torque? or will it rip it to shreds?
I very much doubt that it'll work long-term. I think it'll end in tears.

My high-mileage mag-cased 915 (with at least two prior rebuilds we think) was internally looking pretty sorry for itself after 25,000 miles in front of a mild 930. I replaced with a late 3.2 alu cased 915, and had Mike Bainbridge (MBEngineering on this board) convert to an internal spray bar kit, taller 2nd and 5th gears and fit a WEVO bearing retainer and an LSD with variable lockup.

You'll be glad you spent money on that last item under deceleration, whatever you're using as a gearbox.

If I'd had more time (discovered the box was shot after motor rebuild commenced), I'd have used WEVO's diff and intermediate cases as well, with the stiffer bearing housings (I had a WEVO side cover with the 930 output bearing, but had to use the factory oil pump cover). WEVO were working on a modular cooling kit too, dunno if it's completely out of R & D/available yet.

I'm making 395 HP & 350 ft/lbs at the crank - and that's entirely not by accident, heh.

300-350 ft/lbs is generally regarded as a realistic limit for a 915, and you still have to avoid certain scenarios that will break the 915 (2nd gear is apparently the weakest, and you can peel all the teeth off it).

In an older thread on this board (actually in the 911 tech forum, which pre-dates the 930 one), Hayden (of WEVO) and others make pretty clear two things you will want take on board;

a) pouring money into a 915 is no guarantee that you can make it live longer at power levels significantly higher than it was designed to take (e.g. above 300 ft/lbs) - it's a crap shoot at that point. If you drive reasonably, you can get a lot of fun out of it for a few years, or you could break it pretty much at will.

b) the one thing the 915 really cannot withstand is massive torque at low RPMs.

The stock 930 is a torque monster, and a tweaked one doesn't make less torque anywhere. An EFI'd and blown 3.2 will be too.

Twin-plug and flame-ring it while you're in there, you'll only regret it later if you don't. Aftermarket fasteners for rod bolts are a given, right? You'll probably want the 965 fully-finned cylinders, and should use the pistons that go with them, because your stock 3.2 compression would yield something like 16:1 with stock boost otherwise...

If you accept that you can break your gearbox at will with one prod of the right foot and drive reasonably, you may get some use out of a 915, but you should be thinking of options.

At that power level, you are out of options on the clutch; I've got a 915 Sachs competition cover coming, and the stock friction plate will work for me.

You, however, will need a very much stronger cover than that, which will have a "very heavy" pedal. You also will have to run a puck clutch to handle that torque - and these are generally regarded as "not streetable" due to the harsh engagement.

The six-puck versions are less unacceptable than the four-puck, but the word is that neither is good for a streeted car. You might want to clarify your intended usage; my car is >99% street.

So your plan thus far is do-able, but probably needs some work to refine...

You're in Oxfordshire? You need to talk to this chap called Bob Watson in Banbury, he's built and worked on a few 930s.... PM me if you need a phone number.

Helix Autosports (also in Banbury) can talk to you about a competition clutch, but if you're determined to make that power, I think you should be making plans to switch over to either a 930 box or the G50 now. Both use a 240mm clutch, which makes the limits of the 915 225mm clutch irrelevant. The G50 conversion is nicer, but involves major work to earlier cars, if I understand the process correctly.
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Old 07-28-2007, 03:21 AM
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there are thousands of pictures, and thousands of answers here. Search all those names and you'll find everything

wydryd
kcpsg
mb911
jbrinkley

search protomotive at geocities for some more info, Todd can answer questions there if you can get him on the phone.
bell intercoolers and RRFPRs
batinc.net for hard to find AN metric adaptors.

oh, and ben can hook you up with all the exhaust and pipe you want
Old 07-28-2007, 06:19 AM
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To put it bluntly you are wasting your time IMO with your 911. I too would have liked to have turbo'd my '84 3.2 but I really wanted to supercharge it. I didn't do it because of the 915 transmission. I bit the bullet and bought a 930. If you are still going to do it then you have to get a G50 gearbox, shifter and pedals from at least a '87 up carrera. Sell your 915 in good working order rather than destroying it.

Good luck with your decision.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 07-28-2007, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanUK View Post
To put it bluntly you are wasting your time IMO with your 911. I too would have liked to have turbo'd my '84 3.2 but I really wanted to supercharge it. I didn't do it because of the 915 transmission. I bit the bullet and bought a 930. If you are still going to do it then you have to get a G50 gearbox, shifter and pedals from at least a '87 up carrera. Sell your 915 in good working order rather than destroying it.

Good luck with your decision.
Hey Nathan, there's a few 930-motored cars here running 915's, some blown 3.2's (including one converted by the current owner in the early 80's - which is pretty darned cool), and probably even more 3.6 transplants.

Black Beauty II had 50K street miles over 5 years and 100 track days on a '77 mag case 915 (in 2006). The videos seem to indicate that Jack's not exactly easy on his car...

Promotive are quoted as saying their customers regularly run mid-500's HP with a blown 3.2 through a 915 (because they both make more RPM and make less torque at a given RPM than a 930) in the same thread:

How much power can a 915 really take?

MB told me of a 930-motored hillclimb car with a 915, running high-boost with 935 heads, P&C's - and which at one stage had nitrous fitted as well, LOL. Street driven to and from events with a puck clutch...

A 930 or G50 box would certainly be the stronger choice - and this gets you the 240mm clutch cover as well - but there does seem to be some anecdotal evidence the 915 can last if properly prepared and treated with care...
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Old 07-29-2007, 05:03 AM
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I've been running a 915 behind my 300+RWHP 930 engine for over 5 years.
They will last at that power level if you don't abuse them. There are a few folks out there with much higher torque levels also running 915s with modifications. If you go past ~300 ft/bl torque to the rear wheels you need to beef up the 915. It won't cost a fortune if you can do the labor yourself. If you cannot do the labor you are money ahead buying a 930 4spd. With the higher torque level you don't need a 5 spd unless just for personal preference.
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Old 07-29-2007, 05:47 AM
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Many thanks for the replies, very useful. If I have to change the box for a G50, I'm really not to worried about modifying the body, I cut the bulkhead out and put in a new RHD one, so cutting a bit of the gearbox tunnel, can't be that bad to do, although you have to re-engineer the torsion bar I believe?? someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I have had a 350 bhp front wheel drive Vauxhall Astra(don't ask what the states version is called, I have no idea!), so the 911 has to be in the 450/500 region other wise I will get bored with it to easily. Withe regards to the G50, I believe they did 2 versions, one wirth the end production of the 3.2 and obviously 964 ones. I take it for the G50 I will need to change the flywheel (and obviously clutch setup)

anyway, i will collect some parts and be back with more questions!

Rich
Old 07-29-2007, 11:02 AM
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The 915 in my 3.2 has been the thorn in its side. Maybe I am just too hard on it. I am sure I would have bought a G50 from Patrick Motorsport if they returned my calls... Unfortunately Stephen Kaspar doesn't sell trannies.
Rich, you can convert from torsion bar to coil over shocks. On my '81 930 I believe the gearbox was shortened to squeeze it in so the torsions did not have to be cut. The bellhousing gets shortened & so does the input shaft. The early 3.0 spring centered clutch disc is used as this is much thinner than the later rubber centered one.
On the 3.2 you would need a new fly.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg

Last edited by NathanUK; 10-11-2007 at 08:53 AM..
Old 07-29-2007, 02:42 PM
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well if I ever get the 964 for breaking I can get the G50 from that, or would it just be easier to save my body and have it shortened? I take it there are companies that will do it, as I can't stand working on gearboxes, its something I can do, but get very stressed with!

I would happily keep my 915 IF it would take the power. I know they same a bit heath robinson, but I like mine now, I just bang it into gear and off it goes, although I have driven quite a few G50's including a 3.2 carrera and there was a noticeable difference.

Anyway, I've set my heart on doing it now, so whatever it needs, it will get!

Rich
Old 07-29-2007, 03:12 PM
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My G50 came from the USA. Patrick Motorsports can shorten them. I have never heard of one getting shortened here in UK. You have a better chance locating a box in the USA too.

If you find a good place in the UK please let me know! Spuggy?
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 07-29-2007, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanUK View Post
My G50 came from the USA. Patrick Motorsports can shorten them. I have never heard of one getting shortened here in UK. You have a better chance locating a box in the USA too.

If you find a good place in the UK please let me know! Spuggy?
In the US, Patrick Motorsports or Renegade Hybrids are obvious choices for shortened/modified gearboxes for hi-po applications.

In the UK, think I'd be talking to Mike Bainbridge, Tuthills and/or Russell at RSR Engineering.

There's a couple of really good threads on the conversion here, but I just thought "wow, spendy" and blanked it..
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'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things.
Old 07-30-2007, 01:05 AM
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Spendy is right. Luckily for me I found a 930 with a G50 already in it I was actually looking for a 5spd 930 or 964t.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 07-30-2007, 10:24 AM
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Rich,
I am interested in your RHD conversion.
Can you e mail me
Thanks
Alan
Old 08-02-2007, 05:11 PM
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Hello!

1. Don't bother with 915 with that configuration. You will eventually break it. Sell it while it works, use money to offset the costs of G50. Convert to hydraulic clutch too. You might be able to find G50 from later Carrera too. Problem is, G50 nose will hit torsion tube so it will need re-welding, so it's best to do coilovers in rear "while there" too.
2. OEM 930 crossover headers are nice but they are meant for 3DLZ. Power-wise they aren't so bad but your Garrett will end up too low and you won't be able to do gravity-drain into chain cover. Flange doesn't fit either. I recomend doing custom headers. Also, do a small coolant loop with electric pump for GT35 (if it has water-mantle), you won't regret it.
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Old 08-03-2007, 04:29 AM
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Well i thought it was time for an update on the situation. After having my car up in the air, doing some measuring and research, as ever, another car walked my way. I have just bought a 3.2 carrera super sport on an F plate (88), G50 box, konis etc etc, so I now have all the relevant parts to do the G50. the shell is excellent, so I may just sell my current car and replace it with this one. The engine is okish, but the trim etc is knackered (been flooded out, have a look on the net if you are in america, and see what happened to gloucestershire!) The water was over the seats under water, but after draining the fluids I dried the ECU out and away it went.

It was VERY cheap, so may be an ideal oportunity to turbocharge this one instead. We shall see.

Rich

PS, what did you wnat to know about the bulkhead conversion?
Old 08-05-2007, 03:32 PM
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PPS beep beep, i already had the water cooler pump and rad ready, I know the GT35R has to be water cooled, but thanks for the heads up!

Rich
Old 08-05-2007, 03:33 PM
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Hi Rich,
This topic will be a bit off-topic, which is why I sent my e mail address - but I would be interested in the process to convert LHD to RHD.
Interested in the bulkhead conversion, what parts are needed (is the steering rack symmetrical etc, do you need to replace LHD bulkhead with RHD - ie do you need a donor car etc etc.)
Congrats on your soggy Carrera that just happened to float by. Every cloud has a silver lining (or Carrrera at least).
Alan
Old 08-05-2007, 03:51 PM
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alan, I will email you

cheers

Rich
Old 08-06-2007, 01:07 AM
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