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Crazy cost of intercoolers!! Why not....

Why is it that you can get intercoolers (bar and plate) for Civic's, Acura's, Ford's, etc..) for under $ 400.00 all day on e-bay but when you start talking ones for our cars, they are averaging over $1000.00. This is for the same sized core and I know there is the "Porsche tax" but this is crazy.
I am thinking about either buying one that is designed for an Acura and modifying the end tanks or just buying a core and end tanks and building one. While I can't weld aluminum, I have a friend that is very capable and willing.
Has anyone tried this? What do you think?

Ben
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Old 07-28-2007, 05:42 AM
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I have looked into producing intercoolers for the 930. After looking at suppliers from China to California and crunching the numbers it comes to ....... over $1000.
Why? Because you have such a small demographic to work with. Fab shops price jobs by the hundreds of units. Quality materials are crazy expensive, and again, you only get a price break through bulk purchasing. I am littlerally giving my mufflers away when I sell them for less than $800. If I could sell thousands of them to the Honda camp the price would drop to 1/2, which is what you see with intercoolers as well.

There are a couple of ways to get a price break.
The least expensive is to buy a core and fab the tanks yourself (not everyone can do that),
another is to do a group buy through a distributor so they qualify for special pricing,
another is to find a current manufacturer of intercoolers and persuade them (through a group buy) to add 930 intercoolers to their line. There is a group right now working with PWR. It looks like they may produce a 930 replacement intercooler for less than $1000.

After digesting the research I did on manufacturing and distribution costs for 930 intercoolers I think $1000 is about what you should expect to pay. Anything less than that and the line will be dropped due to low profitability. On the other side, anything more than probably $1300 is pure greed. The $1800 B&B 930 longneck is the most overprices piece of crap I have ever seen.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 07-28-2007, 06:28 AM
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The 930 intercooler has complex shape end tanks including the use of O-ring seals as opposed to rubber hose unions. There are also a number of Mounting brackets, auxillary pluming take off, and sensor bosses. The end tank structure must also be sturdy enough to accept engine vibration since the intercooler is mounted directly onto the engine, and fatigue cracks would not be acceptable. Quality is critical for correct fitment as can be seen in a recent thread.

The intercoolers you see marketed for the japanese imports have very simple end tanks, most being made from folded sheet metal. They have no auxuillary pluming take-offs or bosses. Some are marketed as universal fit. The customer is expected to drill holes in the rad panel for mounting as well as cutting large holes in the rad panel for the inlet and outlet hoses to pass through. Nothing complex in nature at all besides making the installation look professional. Plumbing is done with aluminum or rubber/silicone elbows and hose clamps. Bolt-in but requires tin snips etc. depending on application.

Professionally built kits for Japanese cars sold by the like of HKS etc are also expensive, but well engineered too.
Old 07-28-2007, 07:31 AM
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Buy a core from Bell Intercoolers (approx $600) and weld up the tanks.

Less than $1000...

It doesn't have to be pretty in order to keep the air cool...
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Old 07-28-2007, 09:16 AM
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Yeah, but when you purchase a B&B.....

you get to wait for 12 weeks while they have your money. You get (for free) to take delivery and stare at an incorrect model, and then when you finally talk to them to see what the fu#k is their problem, you very clearly get the message that you are in fact the problem, and that if it wasn't for the disgruntled customers, they would be cheerful and helpful (right Mike).......but yes, the intercooler works, and it fits, about 85% as well as the Porsche one.....and you get a big old nasty polished plate that says "Billy Boat" on it.....which will be removed asap.......THAT's what you get for over $1000......would be nice if the people representing the company at least pretended to give a rats A$$ when you call though.
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Old 07-28-2007, 11:14 AM
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Brain, who is PWR? Pat Williams Racing?

Are you saying they are going to start making an IC?
Old 07-28-2007, 11:30 AM
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I don't know if they have agreed to do it yet. If so it is another option for us.
Personally I am waiting for Blown6 to finish their growing pains. They have a good product for a reasonable price.

http://www.pwr-performance.com/intercooler.htm
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 07-28-2007, 12:32 PM
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I would personally champion this project if I could find cores cheap enough.. any leads? We have the resources to do this just need a good core producer
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Old 07-28-2007, 05:36 PM
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Guess I should have been more specific about the application I am looking for. I am looking for an intercooler for my 3.2 turbo project; just a simple intercooler with out a lot of other "special" outlets. I still think that what is available is overpriced. I am not wanting to re-invent the wheel here, just make something that will function properly for my low hp application. I also believe that you can build an intercooler that is 2 1/2 to 3 inches thick that will fit under the Carrera spoiler or a lid without a spoiler. It just needs to be pushed "back" toward the front of the car. I have mocked up a cardboard template and been able to close the lid with out interference. It would not be that hard to make a shroud to direct the air through the core. Actually, I remember seeing a car here on the board a while back that had a full bay intercooler under a stock lid; anyone remember that?

Ben, since bar and plate design cores are basically all the same, wouldn't some of the tanks from companies like Godspeed work well?? There are a few other companies on e-bay that will sell just cores and tanks for the do-it-yourself crowd. Some of the finished products for cars such as Acura's look like they would work with one end tank flipped since I am using the 3.2 intake.
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Old 07-28-2007, 06:18 PM
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Like this?

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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 07-28-2007, 07:04 PM
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that looks like what I'm after, an intercooler for my 3.2 that fits under the lid so I dont have to mount the spolier (stealth style). Who makes that Rarely late?
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Old 07-29-2007, 03:20 AM
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Rarly, You must keep a library of photo ideas on your computer. I have a good one started for helping my feeble mind retain information.
That is not the one I was talking about but it looks good to me. It is smaller than most but should be good for low boost. Any opinions or info on this one? I probably could get by without one (.5-.7 bar) but I think I want the extra cooling just in case I stay on the boost too long.
The one I remember was on a white car with the reflector deleted and holes formed into the metal panel. I believe a company in Arizona built the intercooler.
I know it would be hard for someone to produce this type of intercooler for a limited application but doing it yourself sure beats watching re-runs of Lost in Space.
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Last edited by ben parrish; 07-29-2007 at 04:33 AM..
Old 07-29-2007, 03:46 AM
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Here it is...It is under a duck.
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Old 07-29-2007, 04:01 AM
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This install is super neat and fits under the lid.

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Old 07-29-2007, 04:31 AM
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I have the plans drawn up to put an intercooler under a duck on my car. It will be very similar to the Carrera engine I posted above. The duck is painted an ready to go, the search is on for affordable cores.

For a street car you really don't need a large intercooler. Short bursts of boost can be handled easily by a small footprint with a lot of air flowing through it. It is heat soak that is your enemy.
I did an experiment last "winter" with shrouding and found that with the right configuration you can vastly reduce heat soak even when sitting still.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 07-29-2007, 06:01 AM
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$900 - 26 x 12 x 3 inches intercooler in 1989 EFI 930 with stock Whale tail, can be use with Carrera manifold


$1300 Twin intercoolers for twin turbochargers 911 with Carrera intake manifold.
Intercooler over all size at 28 x 12 x 3, uses two of 10 x 12 x 3 intercooler cores. Inlet size uses two 2 1/2 inch and one 3 inch. With one 150 degree silicone hose.


I could probably get a group buy going if you guys want me to talk to the guy who makes them near me.

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Old 08-01-2007, 10:11 AM
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subscribing, and where is Dean on this subject??????????
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Old 08-07-2007, 06:24 PM
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One more my friend makes:

Intercooler for Carrera OR 930 intake manifold.

Core size 20 x 11 x 3 inch, end to end 26 x 11 x 3 inch parts included in picture.
Shipping weight 27 lb
$800.

Old 08-07-2007, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivallt View Post
One more my friend makes:

Intercooler for Carrera OR 930 intake manifold.

Core size 20 x 11 x 3 inch, end to end 26 x 11 x 3 inch parts included in picture.
Shipping weight 27 lb
$800.


Wow, I like that muffler! Looks heavy though
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:54 AM
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I'm going to weigh in as a *CONSUMER*. Even though I've just zipped up my flame suite, let me preface the following comments with this: I am an engine guy. I am a car guy. I do subscribe to form following function.

Having said that, some of these intercoolers look hideous to me. There is just too much of a "home built" flair to them. You can't deny that the intercooler in these engines inhabits a rather substantial footprint, thus becoming a focal point. Standing over the engine, it gets a lot of attention, just like the fan. I don't care for all of the sharp angles on SOME of these end tanks. Science and/or dyno numbers aside, I want something functional AND beautiful! There has to be a compromise. That's probably why the original 964 C2 Turbo intercooler appeals to me so much, regardless of it's age. Same for the B6 version. Of course that might also explain the price tag...

I wish I had a better picture, but as far as simplicity goes, this one is a favorite. This is Shockm's engine (one of my all time favorite cars):

The very slight rounding on the end tank edges changes EVERYTHING for me.

Okay, now I'll slither my lame CIS driving azz, back under a rock. Continue...
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Old 08-08-2007, 05:54 AM
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