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I Received My Turbo Last Night!

I posted this in the 911 forum by accident.

I got my Turbo Last night!


Bob
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Old 08-09-2007, 05:15 AM
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Bob -

I have the HFS on my 930 with B&B headers and have used both the stock and TiAL wastegates. My experience was that with the B&Bs the stock wastegate couldn't purge enough pressure to keep the boost where I wanted it. I ended up going with a .5 B spring in my TiAL and an electronic boost controller that enabled me to dial in the desired amount of boost. Worked a lot better for me.

I have a sneaking suspision that you could mate up the same turbo, header and wastegate modifications to any two 930s and find differing results (nothing on my car seems to behave the same as others)' so you may not have the same issues.

Can't speak to the differences between the K27S and HFS but man does my HFS pull hard thru redline! I can see where it may have a little less initial low end pull but what it does have is an extremely smooth and linear boost curve. Night and day from my original 7200.
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'88 Blk/Blk 930 ('Lucy') - Not Stock & Not Running
Old 08-09-2007, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 930LDR View Post
Bob -

I have the HFS on my 930 with B&B headers and have used both the stock and TiAL wastegates. My experience was that with the B&Bs the stock wastegate couldn't purge enough pressure to keep the boost where I wanted it. I ended up going with a .5 B spring in my TiAL and an electronic boost controller that enabled me to dial in the desired amount of boost. Worked a lot better for me.

I have a sneaking suspision that you could mate up the same turbo, header and wastegate modifications to any two 930s and find differing results (nothing on my car seems to behave the same as others)' so you may not have the same issues.

Can't speak to the differences between the K27S and HFS but man does my HFS pull hard thru redline! I can see where it may have a little less initial low end pull but what it does have is an extremely smooth and linear boost curve. Night and day from my original 7200.
Of course it pulls hard thru redline - once that wastegate opens, the pressure is 'fixed' on the intake side. Only if the turbo flattened out enough at high RPM to allow the wastegate to close would you see any decline in performance. Once the wastegate is opened, it basically doesn't matter what turbo is used, as long as it can keep it opened until redline.

I did post another reply to the original thread as well.

Pat K
87 930
Old 08-09-2007, 07:08 AM
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Bob, I gonna come by your place tonight and chat with you.
Andy
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Old 08-09-2007, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellcats521 View Post
Of course it pulls hard thru redline - once that wastegate opens, the pressure is 'fixed' on the intake side. Only if the turbo flattened out enough at high RPM to allow the wastegate to close would you see any decline in performance. Once the wastegate is opened, it basically doesn't matter what turbo is used, as long as it can keep it opened until redline.

I did post another reply to the original thread as well.

Pat K
87 930

Right... and my point is that my 7200 couldn't maintain 1B of boost past 5500+ rpm. The HFS will. Additionally the boost itself comes on much more smoothly. Not as on/off as my prior turbo.
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Old 08-09-2007, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by 930LDR View Post
Right... and my point is that my 7200 couldn't maintain 1B of boost past 5500+ rpm. The HFS will. Additionally the boost itself comes on much more smoothly. Not as on/off as my prior turbo.
Sorry, but that's BS - no 930 motor with only new headers (and a 1 bar spring) would allow a 7200 to close the wastegate at high RPM. My motor with C2 cams, euro CIS, big headers and modified WUR can't 'out breathe' a K-27/7008 with a smaller (-9) hot housing (this is a smaller turbo than a 7200) with a 1 bar spring, so there is NO WAY a stock motor could.

I agree, opinions are like you know what, but facts are just that.... Just keep believing whatever IA (and ultimate motorworks) preaches, and keep opening the wallets.
Old 08-09-2007, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellcats521 View Post
Sorry, but that's BS - no 930 motor with only new headers (and a 1 bar spring) would allow a 7200 to close the wastegate at high RPM. My motor with C2 cams, euro CIS, big headers and modified WUR can't 'out breathe' a K-27/7008 with a smaller (-9) hot housing (this is a smaller turbo than a 7200) with a 1 bar spring, so there is NO WAY a stock motor could.

I agree, opinions are like you know what, but facts are just that.... Just keep believing whatever IA (and ultimate motorworks) preaches, and keep opening the wallets.
You are absolutely right... despite all of the seat time that I have in MY car with MY setup... you clearly know better than I do. Unbelievable.

Bob... take this for what you will but this is what I experienced with the two setups that I have run.
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Old 08-09-2007, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 930LDR View Post
You are absolutely right... despite all of the seat time that I have in MY car with MY setup... you clearly know better than I do. Unbelievable.

Bob... take this for what you will but this is what I experienced with the two setups that I have run.
Dead Skippy...."Unbelievable"

What I really am curious about is, how much seat time do you have at 5600RPM? What gear(s), and what tracks? How many minutes at that RPM? I envision it's less than 60 secs thru the life of your ownership of it, based on this dialogue, but I'm sure your opinion has some worth.
Old 08-09-2007, 07:50 AM
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In an effort to avoid any continued degradation of this thread I am going to bow out of this discussion.

Bob feel free to pm me if you want to discuss further.
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'88 Blk/Blk 930 ('Lucy') - Not Stock & Not Running
Old 08-09-2007, 09:12 AM
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The thread would be far more valuable to the visitors if instead of playing "mine is better than yours" one would address the benefits/pitfalls of each installation.

So since this is my reply I'll contribute the following:

More flow (K27HFS) = bigger wheel, more inertia, more lag, weaker at the bottom (torque), stronger at the top (hp)

Less flow (K27S) = the opposite of above.

This assumes that any of the other turbo components remain the same with the A/F ratio tuned to the turbo characteristics. See that sounds like a good place to start.....

To each its own.....my 2 cents.
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:03 AM
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Robert, the HFS will work it just may not work as well in your application as a K27S.
By "your application" I mean a street car that would benifit more from a flat torque curve than a more norrow power band. You may like it just fine.
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:31 AM
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Rarly8 has it right Robert. Will Steven take it back and ship you a K27S. My 3.3 t is not even close to stock, and I don't think I would like having the K27HFS due to the later spool up. What you are looking for, or what I would be, is usuable power. The earlier the boost comes on, the better in my opinion.

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Old 08-09-2007, 10:49 AM
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Thanks guys..Could we agree that it will perform better than the 3dlz? As my car functions now I have to wait in every gear for the turbo to spool up. Jump on the freeway shift into second an wait a couple seconds and the afterburners come on next gear 1 second lag...I was told it will spool up alot faster than the stock one. Is this true?

Bob
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_snyder View Post
Thanks guys..Could we agree that it will perform better than the 3dlz? As my car functions now I have to wait in every gear for the turbo to spool up. Jump on the freeway shift into second an wait a couple seconds and the afterburners come on next gear 1 second lag...I was told it will spool up alot faster than the stock one. Is this true?

Bob
The answer is.....maybe. Based strictly on the turbine size - no, it won't spool earlier, but because it is a more efficient design, it 'might'.

All in all, most will quickly agree that you spent waayy too much for 'might'. If you dump another 6-8K into your motor in performance parts (assuming you don't need more for a typical overhaul), that turbo will perform great in a 450+ HP setup including cams, efi, exhaust, intercooler (prolly need bigger than the B&B drop in you also ordered), etc.....

And, something is wrong with your car if you have lag after you shift, say from 2-3 at 5K RPM or higher. Even the 3LDZ is spooled and on the wastegate at 5K - it should hit quick going from say 2-3 shift on a freeway ramp. I'd bet your diverter assembly is leaking boost....

Last edited by kellcats521; 08-09-2007 at 11:10 AM..
Old 08-09-2007, 11:07 AM
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Comparing the HFS and the 3LDZ is joke. The 3LDZ is a 30 year old paper weight. The HFS we built less than 5 years ago using the latest technology. We cast and machine the housings so we also control the AR. The back plates and so on are also built in house. Efficiency of the turbo is much higher than the 3LDZ. You should see the efficiency when we ZC the turbos!

Will the HFS be good for Bob, well as I told him with the set today at this point it is overkill. He will still see benefits over the stock turbo but he has future plans and didn't want to buy a turbo now and a turbo later so decided on the HFS. It will not spool as fast as a K27S but it will still spool faster (read more efficient) than the 3LDZ hands down. The characterizes of the turbo are more linear as opposed to on and off so the seat of the pants feel may not be as dramatic as the K27 but putting it on the dyno and logging the car will show you that it is building boost and TQ much faster than the 3LDZ and certainly more then the rear is picking up.

We all know that the K27 can not maintain 1.0 at redline, it is out of its efficiency map, the HFS will maintain 1.3 bar to redline if desired. I do not recommend that of course.

Which is the best turbo, well it depends if his goals change. If he stops where he is at then as I explained there are better choices. If he sticks to the road map that he has set out on then the turbo he has chosen will serve him well.

I would also agree that the bushing/seals should be replaced in the OEM return system. It will stop the clunking as well.
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Old 08-09-2007, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSiple View Post
Rarly8 has it right Robert. Will Steven take it back and ship you a K27S. My 3.3 t is not even close to stock, and I don't think I would like having the K27HFS due to the later spool up. What you are looking for, or what I would be, is usuable power. The earlier the boost comes on, the better in my opinion.

Bill
This to me is the correct line of thought. Find out what is the best turbo for your car. Most agree you are better served with the K27S. My guess is Imagine would agree. If that is the case then just call Imagine and switch to the K27S. My guess is it won't be a problem as you haven't installed the K27HS yet. These parts and cars cost to much to knowingly put the wrong turbo on your car. I can't speak for you but I'd have a hard time enjoying my car if I spent thousands to have it set up wrong. Either way you need the headers to get the most out of your turbo.
Old 08-09-2007, 01:24 PM
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