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Porsche Crest The best modern turbos for the 930 ?

...in terms of performance and durability...... what are they?


My turbo doesn't really do anything until 3,000 rpm.... but then all hell breaks loose! It's a KKK K28 'cheater' .. I guess it's an old design...maybe a hybrid? I am running a 1 bar spring, headers and web cams ..... don't ask the grind because I don't know

It would be cool to have a turbo that came on boost earlier and maybe more linear, but I don't know if anyone makes them.
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82 Porsche 930 Euro, black, 31K miles.
Factory stock other than k27 turbo, B&B headers, GHL exhaust, Tial F40, 1 bar wastegate, MSD 6A ignition, 8" and 9" Fuch upgrade, H4 Xenon headlamps and a 930S steering wheel.

Last edited by Maxx1; 08-09-2007 at 06:35 AM..
Old 08-09-2007, 06:32 AM
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Two camps come to mind;
1.) The KKK with redesigned internals. The K-27S and the K-27HFS from Imagine Auto or Ultimatemotorwerks.
2.) The Garrett turbo's(GT35's). They need more fabricating on the oiling, intake/outpipe hoses, but are more modern designs than the KKK's.

If you are not running with aftermarket headers on your car, that would be the most recommended place to start. You'll be amazed in the improvement in the driveability of the car just by that change alone.
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Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P

Last edited by WERK I; 08-09-2007 at 08:17 AM..
Old 08-09-2007, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WERK-I View Post
Two camps come to mind;
1.) The KKK with redesigned internals. The K-27S and the K-27HFS from Imagine Auto or Ultimate Turbo.
2.) The Garrett turbo's(GT35's). They need more fabricating on the oiling, intake/outpipe hoses, but are more modern designs than the KKK's.

If you are not running with aftermarket headers on your car, that would be the most recommended place to start. You'll be amazed in the improvement in the driveability of the car just by that change alone.


I have B&B headers and a GHL stainless muffler/ exhaust ( it's pretty throaty sounding, so I'm sure it has very low backpressure ).


My main goal is to get the car to spool up faster and earlier in the rpm range. As is, it pulls well off boost, but when the boost hits, it is like a switch ... off to on.
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82 Porsche 930 Euro, black, 31K miles.
Factory stock other than k27 turbo, B&B headers, GHL exhaust, Tial F40, 1 bar wastegate, MSD 6A ignition, 8" and 9" Fuch upgrade, H4 Xenon headlamps and a 930S steering wheel.
Old 08-09-2007, 06:58 AM
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I'm trying to get my hands around it as I write this:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=369289
Luckily I have a lot of life left in my K27-7200 while I learn all I can about fitting a Garrett!
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 08-09-2007, 07:00 AM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by sand_man View Post
I'm trying to get my hands around it as I write this:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=369289
Luckily I have a lot of life left in my K27-7200 while I learn all I can about fitting a Garrett!
Thanks man, that's some good reading
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82 Porsche 930 Euro, black, 31K miles.
Factory stock other than k27 turbo, B&B headers, GHL exhaust, Tial F40, 1 bar wastegate, MSD 6A ignition, 8" and 9" Fuch upgrade, H4 Xenon headlamps and a 930S steering wheel.
Old 08-09-2007, 07:06 AM
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Maxx

Thats my question...Lots of people have said the K27S and HFS were good. I bought the HFS and now I'm hearing the "overkill" argument that I don't understand.

(K27HFS) I see it like a hunting rifle. A 30 06 will kill just about anything your hunting, right. K27S is a 30 30 and will kill a rabbit but wont touch a grizzly.

I'm going to take a beating today....I feel it!

I was looking for an all around turbo to suffice now and be capable of feeding a better motor in the future...

Bob
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Old 08-09-2007, 07:07 AM
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Bob -

Everyone has an opinion around here. Some are more grounded in practical experience while others are more grounded in theory (and there is still yet another camp of people who just plain don't know what they are talking about!).

I probably would have done a bit more consulting with Stephen prior to plunking down the cash but I don't think you have made any sort of irreversable mistake. Is the HFS overkill for stock headers and a stock motor? Maybe. But I am guessing that headers are going to be coming down the pike soon for you and eventually probably so will cams.

Call Stephen and talk it thru with him. Honestly no one is going to know better than he how to best size a K27 for your purposes.
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_snyder View Post
Maxx

Thats my question...Lots of people have said the K27S and HFS were good. I bought the HFS and now I'm hearing the "overkill" argument that I don't understand.

(K27HFS) I see it like a hunting rifle. A 30 06 will kill just about anything your hunting, right. K27S is a 30 30 and will kill a rabbit but wont touch a grizzly.

I'm going to take a beating today....I feel it!

I was looking for an all around turbo to suffice now and be capable of feeding a better motor in the future...

Bob
Yeah, I saw your other thread.

Some people said the K28 that I have is outdated and overkill for my car, but it really pulls hard when it hits. I was just wanting something that came on earlier and smoother.

Good luck with the HFS .... I probably would have done the same.....at least you have room to grow should you decide to try other mods
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82 Porsche 930 Euro, black, 31K miles.
Factory stock other than k27 turbo, B&B headers, GHL exhaust, Tial F40, 1 bar wastegate, MSD 6A ignition, 8" and 9" Fuch upgrade, H4 Xenon headlamps and a 930S steering wheel.
Old 08-09-2007, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_snyder View Post
I'm going to take a beating today....I feel it!
I thought this was really funny!!!! I think we've all put a few posts out there, knowing full well of the onslought about to ensue!

All I can say is that one of the K27 "H" models that Imagine Auto and Ultimate Motorwerks sell, is better suited (and designed) for EFI. Wether that model is yours, or not, I'm not certain. And at any rate, that's not to say that it wouldn't work...just might not be ideally matched! Being that you've got future plans, I'm sure you're fine! With my engine mods, the basic K27-7200 that I have is sort of a limiting factor right now. Followed by the SC cams.
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 08-09-2007, 10:53 AM
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I'm sure glad you guys are in a good mood! Thanks for the advice and input. Should I just order the headers now. I was told that Bruce Anderson has written that the stock headers are acceptable for use with these mods after the 1980's. My car is a 87. I have heard the horror stories about removing the bolt and studs. If the after market headers are worth $1500-2000 in performance gains, I will buy them. Then I need a WG too. Right?

Bob
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Old 08-09-2007, 12:19 PM
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Headers have greater value in driveability than power. They return a dismal $/HP factor. You need to line out your goals for what you want the car to do when the smoke clears from your wallet. If EFI and big HP numbers are what you want then headers you will need. If 350HP to the wheels makes you happy then headers are not an absolute.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 08-09-2007, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sand_man View Post
I thought this was really funny!!!! I think we've all put a few posts out there, knowing full well of the onslought about to ensue!

All I can say is that one of the K27 "H" models that Imagine Auto and Ultimate Motorwerks sell, is better suited (and designed) for EFI. Wether that model is yours, or not, I'm not certain. And at any rate, that's not to say that it wouldn't work...just might not be ideally matched! Being that you've got future plans, I'm sure you're fine! With my engine mods, the basic K27-7200 that I have is sort of a limiting factor right now. Followed by the SC cams.
The K27HF2 was designed for EFI and is too big for CIS.

The K27S & K27HFS were designed for CIS.
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Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

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Old 08-09-2007, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sand_man View Post
I thought this was really funny!!!! I think we've all put a few posts out there, knowing full well of the onslought about to ensue!

All I can say is that one of the K27 "H" models that Imagine Auto and Ultimate Motorwerks sell, is better suited (and designed) for EFI. ....snip
I would argue that if you are considering an EFI conversion, and going through the process of really building a high performance car (reason for EFI), then there are other, cheaper alternatives (a lot, actually) that most likely perform better for your specific design. The real value to the Ultimate Motorwerks turbo is that it is a bolt-on for CIS cars and it works.
Old 08-09-2007, 05:34 PM
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Garrett GT series turbos are the hands down the best and most efficient off the shelf turbos you can buy. There is plenty of other stuff that works just fine, but if you want the absolute best, the GT series is it.
Old 08-09-2007, 06:03 PM
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I went with the Garrett GT-35R from Chris at Turbo Kraft and I have not looked back. Spool time is incredible!!!!

You would want to find out from Chris if the 35R might be too much turbo for a CIS car. I assume youre still running CIS, but if EFI then I say GT-35R all the way!!!

Just my .02 again......
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:15 PM
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Yes, A GT35R is way too much. I am just finshing an EFI on a 3.6 with that turbo and it is laying out 500 to the rear wheels. Say Kaboom on a CIS system!
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanUK View Post
The K27HF2 was designed for EFI and is too big for CIS.

The K27S & K27HFS were designed for CIS.
Thanks for clarifying that, Nathan! Yes, the HF2 is the model I was referring to for EFI. I couldn't remember, and didn't have a chance to look it up for myself.
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 08-10-2007, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonE View Post
I would argue that if you are considering an EFI conversion, and going through the process of really building a high performance car (reason for EFI), then there are other, cheaper alternatives (a lot, actually) that most likely perform better for your specific design. The real value to the Ultimate Motorwerks turbo is that it is a bolt-on for CIS cars and it works.
Agreed.
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 08-10-2007, 06:49 AM
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Garrett GT35R, hands down. CIS or no CIS, it's just a air-pump. A very efficient one. What matters is mass flow/pressure differential and not what squirts the fuel. Yes, it needs another flange and less oil pressure and a coolant loop but once it's solved it's years ahead of KKK K27-any-letter-you-like.

Actually, I was involved in a project using >two< of those on 3.6L EFI engine. Spoolup wasn't too bad despite 1.8L huffing into each.
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Old 08-10-2007, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beepbeep View Post
Garrett GT35R, hands down. CIS or no CIS, it's just a air-pump. A very efficient one. What matters is mass flow/pressure differential and not what squirts the fuel. Yes, it needs another flange and less oil pressure and a coolant loop but once it's solved it's years ahead of KKK K27-any-letter-you-like.

Actually, I was involved in a project using >two< of those on 3.6L EFI engine. Spoolup wasn't too bad despite 1.8L huffing into each.
How would the GT35R compares with the 40R for EFI cars?

BTW - I have PM'ed you on another topic...
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Old 08-10-2007, 11:33 AM
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