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Forced Induction Junkie
 
WERK I's Avatar
 
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Amen!! beepbeep
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Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P

Last edited by WERK I; 08-15-2007 at 05:10 AM..
Old 08-15-2007, 05:08 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
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I just got a hallman pro rx manual boost controller, which has the ceramic ball in it to make rapid boost changes.

You can raise your boost ever so slightly with that and just use a .8 bar spring, which is what I put in my new Tial 46mm bling thing.

I will let you know how that boost controller works out if you want, when it is installed in a week or two. You just put the controller inline to the wastegate from the boost signal. Piece of cake.
Old 08-15-2007, 07:30 AM
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Absolutely, if you have the full AFR measuring device with data logging - you are pretty much set.
Make sure the O2 is not placed too close to the turbo - and always AFTER the turbo.

You are on the way to a very powerful and well running beast.
I would guess 380 HP -- at the wheels when you are finished with the tasks you need to accomplish.
That my friend, is a lot of power
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno

Last edited by Craig 930 RS; 08-15-2007 at 08:42 AM..
Old 08-15-2007, 08:29 AM
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You can use exhaust clamp for measuring AFR with heated WBO2 sensor, it's pretty accurate and easy to remove. It's somewhat unreliable at idle, which isn't the issue here.
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Old 08-15-2007, 08:45 AM
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It actually goes pretty far in Goran, and it seems to be accurate for other folks at idle -

Curious:
Robert - You still have to pass a CA visual and get a smog for your car in CA, right?
Do you have headers?
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-15-2007, 08:52 AM
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Goran, idle AFRs are the missing link in dyno testing and why I mensioned that earlier on. When adjusting the WUR you have to go back to the cold pressure adjustment when finished to verify it did not move. That section of the operating range is not so important in terms of performance but needs to be addressed for optimal operation off boost.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 08-15-2007, 08:58 AM
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Mine LM-1 exhaust clamp differed as much as one AFR point to almost no difference at all, depending on how big exhaust pipe you have, how many cylinders etc. Generally, the less cylinder and the more "puffing" there is in exhaust pipe, the more fresh air gets reversed/drawn in and confuses the sensor. As soon as revs are raised above idle, this stops to be a issue.

Only bullet-proof way of adjusting idle CO is by hooking the car to 4-way gas analyzer. It's somewhat hard to do with WBO2 alone as it just measure AFR's.
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Old 08-15-2007, 09:07 AM
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Plus, a dyno 02 probe goes in as far as the cavity allows -
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-15-2007, 09:21 AM
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Craig,

No headers yet. I wanted to see where the spool up started and make that $2000 dollar decision later. I think it may require a smog visual. But my smog guy didnt know what it was supposed to look like. I have fabricated a pipe to come off the cat so that I can directly bolt the cat and air tubes back on to get smogged and remove and replace the muff in fifteen minutes or so. I hope it wont be a problem....

I drove the beast to work and checked yahoo weather and the forcast is 104 conservatively today. I bet I will be running home will 230+ oil temp...Not good. The car felt like a jet fighter with afterburners this morning in 70 degree temperature. Very cool..

P.S. I stopped to get gas at 5am this morning and this boob drives in the gas station and stops behind me and his car rolled into my bumper pads. No damage except to my blood pressure.

These things NEVER happen to my truck....????


Thanks

Bob
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Old 08-15-2007, 09:43 AM
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"P.S. I stopped to get gas at 5am this morning and this boob drives in the gas station and stops behind me and his car rolled into my bumper pads. No damage except to my blood pressure. "


Shots would have been fired if that happened to me...
Glad to hear there was no damage Bob.

Andy
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Old 08-15-2007, 12:12 PM
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Robert,
I have an XD-16, I am going to just use that for tuning, no dyno in this city. As stated a dyno does not simulate the real use of a 911 turbo. The sensor with the LM-1 & XD-16 can be calibrated.
Do you think you would have prefered an earlier spool up?

Goran,
As for the running in, I was told it is for the oil seal. Does that make sense?
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg

Last edited by NathanUK; 08-15-2007 at 03:12 PM..
Old 08-15-2007, 03:09 PM
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Just fyi... when I was using my Borla dual out muffler, the WBO2 sensor was mounted after the muffler; 6" from the end of one of the tail pipe. I did NOT get reliable idle reading from the LM-1.
My experience is similar to what Goran said...
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Old 08-15-2007, 04:27 PM
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Nathan,

Considering I have stock headers it may be too early to tell. I was told that aftermarket headers will help the spool up by 500 RPM's. If this is true, I believe I made the right choice. I see boost begin about 2500 RPM now after driving it. I don't know where it reaches .8 bar yet because I'm being careful. ( And it sucks) I'm dying to kick the spurs to her! In counterpoint, It delivers a lot of air at the top end and I can get ferocious RPMs if you leave your foot in it.

At the moment with the stock exhaust it runs much better and very linear. If a 500 rpm improvement (And adding another 4-500rpms lower with headers) is where you would like to be with a massive top end. Its the turbo for you.

Like I said earlier..It skews your torque profile earlier with gobs of air at the top. Almost makes me worry about the size of my wastegate.

I need a LC-1 now!

Thanks Nathan

Bob

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Old 08-15-2007, 05:22 PM
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P.S. Create a partial 'block-off' made of sheet for the idle tests with the Innovate stuff - that will help with teh reversion from the large shallow exhaust pipes.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-15-2007, 06:00 PM
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right - because you want to adjust C/O based on a partially obstructed exhaust and guess on what your mixture values should be. Sorry but a 4 way gas analyzer is much better idea. Unless you are a factory ex-imsa 935 mechanic, then apparently you can play with the control preassures and just adjust by ear, and miraculously the readings are spot on. (Didn't believe it until I verified the readings myself)
Old 08-15-2007, 06:24 PM
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You definitely have a point - I guess I should say that I use the 4 way myself at one of two local shops to adjust the idle!
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-15-2007, 06:37 PM
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I would go all out and just get some cheaper headers. I think they all copy the B+B design.

Get the Vertex/Schnell/GoingSuperFast/OBX version with or without heat, depending on what you want. They all look the same to me. I have heard that the GSF/OBX ones might not fit quite right on some applications, but maybe the Vertex or Schnell do.

For less than a thousand bucks you can complete your bolt on package.
Old 08-16-2007, 11:59 AM
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DDDD,

I was just talking to Stephan Kaspar about that and the benefits. I really think so but I get a stomache ache thinking about trying to get off the old bolts. That turbo tested my patients. He said it could be possible to get boost in the teens with them. I like the Turbo but afraid to use it because I dont know where I am with my AFR's. Been looking for a local shop who sells LC-1. I'm not going to worry about my 1 bar spring until I get AFR reading. If i'm in the green I will leave it.

Got any other suggestions???



Bob
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Old 08-16-2007, 12:43 PM
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Yep, and for street use the cheapie headers - if they fit - aren't a bad idea at all -
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-16-2007, 12:45 PM
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Robert, Stephen sells the Innovate stuff. He will send you one. If you have a problem he will help you out with it.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 08-16-2007, 02:58 PM
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