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resident samsquamch
 
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My biggest worry, is in finding a stretch of road, safe enough, to allow a third gear pull to 6,300 RPMs to dial in my setup! Yes it's fun, but reckless! That's when a dyno can come in handy! I'm not one to endorse street racing...
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 08-16-2007, 03:51 PM
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Me like track days
 
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Woo hoo, isn't that about 100 mph + in 3rd on a 930 transmission?
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"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-16-2007, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig 930 RS View Post
Woo hoo, isn't that about 100 mph + in 3rd on a 930 transmission?
...ummm yeah, something like that!!!

Man, I know for you track guys that's nothing, but when you start thinking about the NC deer, squirrels, possums, raccoons, pedestrians, and assorted "ricers" jumping in your path, it quickly becomes a white knuckle experience!
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-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 08-16-2007, 04:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #43 (permalink)
Wo ist die Rennstrecke?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beepbeep View Post
1. Adjusting CO ....
2. CIS runs ....
3. I find dyno time unnecessary. It's often expensive and measures the things out of cars natural habitat = street. LM1 or LC1 is extremly useful gadget. It can log AFR's, RPM and boost. With other words, all you need to ddo is hook it up and do a lengthy pull in 3:rd gear on a highway = instant dyno.
4. There is ....
5. 0.8 bar spring ....
#3 - incredibly bad advice for tuning....

Just what we need - someone doing over a 100 simulating a WOT dyno pull and expecting accurate results. You might be able to pull this off if you can miss the person pulling out of their driveway or the other one on the cell phone changing lanes. Instant wreck.

Spend the money and go to a dyno. Most can pull an accurate AFR for tuning.
Old 08-16-2007, 04:25 PM
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Me like track days
 
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100 on the street - that is really something - scares the hell outta me so I try not to do it either ;-)
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-16-2007, 04:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #45 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
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It's even more humorous (but less dangerous I suppose) to hear of tuning with a wideband + "gauge" only.....

With those useless orange numbers flashing by ,what the hell use is that?
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-16-2007, 04:35 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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You guys are kidding right?
My turbo can get to 100mph from a dead stop in under 9 seconds. I need maybe 5 seconds for a data run. You are also assuming that everyone lives in a metropolis setting. I do my fun runs on roads out in the country with no cross streets and no traffic of any sort. It would be an unusual event for me to get in this car and [I]NOT[I] hit 100mph. How can you own a turbo living in such confined spaces?
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 08-16-2007, 05:39 PM
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resident samsquamch
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig 930 RS View Post
It's even more humorous (but less dangerous I suppose) to hear of tuning with a wideband + "gauge" only.....

With those useless orange numbers flashing by ,what the hell use is that?
Hit the "record" button and hang on!
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 08-16-2007, 06:49 PM
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Getting Brave With My Experiments

OK fella's, The latest.....

Getting Brave....

Very hot again..today..150 degrees.. washed the girl and took her for a spin got on the freeway and goosed her to .8 where the Stock gage indicates and stops. I know the needle will go to 1 bar because one day I forgot to hook up that vent line to the WG. I can only get .8 at any RPM now. Car runs much better when the outside temperature diminishes, it's 80 now and a noticeable difference in boost RPM and torque. (Is this my imagination?????) I was talking to Stephan about maybe a leak in the gaskets in my BOV. It does clack when you crack the throttle. Is this indicative of a seal problem???? I would also like to buy some headers and have my buddy Craig or Nathan put them on.. If I have to screw with another frozen nut I think I will scream some more..(but its kinda one of those things that you champion and know you wont have that problem with that particular nut again) kinda rewarding when you heeve in in the neighbors yard. Rotten little Bast-ard)! I came in and had a beer! can you tell? Antiseize is my best friend!

I'm being safe and not over boosting it , I really don't know whether it will?

Got any more input.

Brave Bob
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Old 08-16-2007, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonE View Post
#3 - incredibly bad advice for tuning....

Just what we need - someone doing over a 100 simulating a WOT dyno pull and expecting accurate results. You might be able to pull this off if you can miss the person pulling out of their driveway or the other one on the cell phone changing lanes. Instant wreck.

Spend the money and go to a dyno. Most can pull an accurate AFR for tuning.
Ehh...you never drove your car at 100mph on the street? That's like 156km/h...not terribly high speed. Millions of Germans drive much faster than that, on daily bases and live to tell. Actually, their highway death figures are much lower than American. I drive at 100mph when I'm late for job...not if there are cars around and it's crowded but as soon as there is open strech of highway and no cars it's perfecly safe to goose the car into 100mph...it happends in an instant and it's easy to brake down to legal speed. You could also do a pull in 2:nd gear.


About "simulating WOT dyno pull and getting accurate results":

In my opinion, dyno IS simulating road-driving, not vice versa. And you will probably get less accurate results on a dyno than on a highway as car won't be moving trough the air. Yes, there might be a blower trying to push air into intercooler but it isn't the same thing as having the car in it's natural habitat.

So by all means...yes, I believe that highway "dyno" is better than "strap your car onto these rolls, give me 100 bucks and I'll show you some happy figures" -dyno for most pedestrian needs. Actually, I have an accellerometer in my AuxBox which gives me posibility to extract torque, which allows me to extract power. With other words, I have my own pocket-dyno. All I need is a strech of straight road.
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Last edited by beepbeep; 08-17-2007 at 02:23 AM..
Old 08-16-2007, 11:44 PM
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Beepbeep?

Out of context your statement sounds like you are glad more Americans are killed than Germans. the Happyface means your happy!

What kind of accelerometer do you have? It WILL tell you allot. Physics is physics? I'm beginning to think the HP is directly associated with barometric pressure and temperature like it should be. My car runs allot better when its cool...

What the avg. temp in Sweden today?

Thanks

Bob
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:00 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Your car will run much better in cool dry air than in hot humid air, for several reasons.
- The intercooler inlet radiant air is cooler.
- Cool dry air is more dense than hot humid air.
- Water (humidity) does not burn.
- Cooler air to the engine fan keeps the heads cooler.

I use a pocket dyno (accellerometer) as well. They are quite accurate if the input information is precise.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Last edited by RarlyL8; 08-17-2007 at 05:14 AM..
Old 08-17-2007, 05:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #52 (permalink)
 
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Using the dyno to do your full tuning will be very very $$$$$ - after 2-3 pulls, your intercooler will likely be so heat soaked that any further tuning is waste of time & money. You can NOT simulate high speed air flow thru the car on a dyno; which will affect driveability & air flow (& temp).

If you really care about WOT & high speed/load tuning, find a safe event and hit the race track
Unless you are in wild wild west, where can you hit full boost for >10 sec? And its those situations that you really care about how good the WOT/high load tune is IMHO. If all you care is 2 sec of boost, then just richen it up.
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:37 AM
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Hobieboy,

What RPM does your k27HFS begine to spool up? .. What type headers do you have?

Thanks

Bob
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:57 AM
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Brian,

Thanks... Are you guys using one of those in-dash eccelerometers what are they called PAC's or something "Personnal Auto Computers" Input the vehicle's mass type of thing.
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Old 08-17-2007, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_snyder
Beepbeep?

Out of context your statement sounds like you are glad more Americans are killed than Germans. the Happyface means your happy!
Absolutely not. I apoligize if I expressed this in wrong way. I'm just trying to say that occasional (or in German case, prolonged) driving at high speeds doesn't mean mortal danger. If highway is OK and car is in good running order...once or twice won't kill you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_snyder
What kind of accelerometer do you have? It WILL tell you allot. Physics is physics? I'm beginning to think the HP is directly associated with barometric pressure and temperature like it should be. My car runs allot better when its cool...

What the avg. temp in Sweden today?
I have LM1 and additional AuxBox. AuxBox contains two accellerometers that are loged directly into LM1. It also contains 3-bar MAP-sensor and additional chanells that log EGT, duty-cycle and TPS.

With other words, properly wired LM1 + AuxBox will log more information than most dyno operators will ever care to hook up on your car (if they DO have all that loging equipment in first place).

If you have your LM1 properly hooked up and logging AFR, RPM, MAP and linear accelleration, you can derive all kind of useful info.

You can extract EFI map more or less instantly, you can use accelleration to derive power (by multiplinng it with RPM) etc. Actual power numbers are little tricky, as you need to know vehicle weight, gearing and tire size but it doesn't matter really. You can overlay figures and tune until you max them. Then you have max power. If figure is 340hp or 360hp is secondary...that kind of numbers can be later extracted on dyno, for bragging rights



P.S. Of course, car will go better when air is cool as cool air is denser and your turbocharger will pack more oxygen into engine at same boost.

Average temp in my region of Sweden today is 70 deg F.
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Old 08-17-2007, 06:22 AM
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Thanks Beepbeep!

I knew you didnt mean that! I just seized the opportunity to be silly. Thanks for you input...

What about my BOV clack...Is this normal? I hear they leak from these valves. if so can the leeks be significant to effect your boost?

Whatta ya think?

Bob
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Old 08-17-2007, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_snyder View Post
Thanks Beepbeep!

I knew you didnt mean that! I just seized the opportunity to be silly. Thanks for you input...

What about my BOV clack...Is this normal? I hear they leak from these valves. if so can the leeks be significant to effect your boost?

Whatta ya think?

Bob
I sink that ze worn valves can do all kind of bad things. They will promote "internal bleeding" which will make ze turbo blow harder to achieve druck, and also idle will be hunting up-and-down. Ze clonk from motorhaube isn't so inspiring either.

Luckily, they are licht to replace and ich have a nice bildbuch für ihr:
Changing 930 dump-gaskets, pictures galore
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Old 08-17-2007, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_snyder View Post
Hobieboy,

What RPM does your k27HFS begine to spool up? .. What type headers do you have?

Thanks

Bob
Bob, I have the original K27HF from Kevin, not the latest "S" variants. And I'm using GHL; changing to B&B though.

Going from memory, when I was running CIS, I start to see boost around 2400rpm & full boost around 32-3400 mark.
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Old 08-17-2007, 09:12 AM
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Didn't you go to a more modern BOV system when you hooked up your intercooler? Or is your IC a short neck?

Get Stephen to sell you a welded C2 style modern diverter set up. He has them in the $300 range. Then you will no longer have an old school diverter set up.
Old 08-17-2007, 09:15 AM
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