Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,196
It is entirely about power to weight.
My 79SC weighed 2450 lbs and had 280 HP...........at the wheels with it's Varioram 3.6.

A C6 Z06 stock puts 450-460 to the wheels, 480-490 with just a few changes.
The friends' C6 Z06 in my video shifts *one* time from turn 3b to 5a......I shift 3.

The P/W ratios are almost identical, hence the same acceleration - if I didn't have to shift as often.

Cars that can 'take on' my 930 on a race track --- stop, go, turn:

Corvette Z06 - my GOD they are quick in every way...
Ferrari F430 - ditto.
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-22-2007, 06:38 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #41 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,077
If you look up Protomotive Porsche on Youtube, you will discover a 1000 hp 996 owned by Alexander, which easily runs 8 second quarter miles. He races, and kills, a Kawasaki Ninja that does 9 second, 150 mph quarter miles from the factory.

And there are several other Protomotive cars that are just as fast.

Contrary to what a couple people here imply, you can achieve the same results in a Porsche as a ricer. Just like everything in life, if you want a ricer than you get a ricer and if you want a Porsche you are going to pay more money.

I am sure that a Camry is as smooth and quiet as a Rolls Royce, but I doubt any Rolls owner wishes he could be driven around in a Camry.

I would rather have the 1000hp Porsche, and it is just as buildable as a 1000hp ricer, but for a different price. Todd at Protomotive builds these cars all the time, there is no mystery to it.

As far as the Evo 'legend', I guess that the pimple faced youngsters of the Youtube generation will have something to talk about in the year 2040 when they are all restoring and driving their 30 year old Evos. They will be lusting after their 30 year old Evos, right? I mean, a legend is something that we look back upon at a later time. A 'fad' is something that happens for a while and then the kids move on to the next thing.
Old 08-22-2007, 01:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #42 (permalink)
Forced Induction Junkie
 
WERK I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,290
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDDD View Post
If you look up Protomotive Porsche on Youtube, you will discover a 1000 hp 996 owned by Alexander, which easily runs 8 second quarter miles. He races, and kills, a Kawasaki Ninja that does 9 second, 150 mph quarter miles from the factory.

And there are several other Protomotive cars that are just as fast.

Contrary to what a couple people here imply, you can achieve the same results in a Porsche as a ricer. Just like everything in life, if you want a ricer than you get a ricer and if you want a Porsche you are going to pay more money.

I am sure that a Camry is as smooth and quiet as a Rolls Royce, but I doubt any Rolls owner wishes he could be driven around in a Camry.

I would rather have the 1000hp Porsche, and it is just as buildable as a 1000hp ricer, but for a different price. Todd at Protomotive builds these cars all the time, there is no mystery to it.

As far as the Evo 'legend', I guess that the pimple faced youngsters of the Youtube generation will have something to talk about in the year 2040 when they are all restoring and driving their 30 year old Evos. They will be lusting after their 30 year old Evos, right? I mean, a legend is something that we look back upon at a later time. A 'fad' is something that happens for a while and then the kids move on to the next thing.
Geez, lighten up will you? Let's be greatful there still are kids out there that love cars and enjoy hot rodding them. This sport/hobby needs all the help it can get to save us from the "tree huggers".

The C6 Z06 is a fantastic car. I, for one, is really happy for Chevrolet Corvette to push against the corporate yahoos and produce an American-built world-class car on the street and on the track.
__________________
Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 08-23-2007, 08:09 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #43 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,196
Strangely enough, and since we're so far off topic anyway, I'll bet the Mitsubishi Evolution does become somewhat of an icon within it's own genre.
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-23-2007, 08:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #44 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Garen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 328
Garage
+1 to that. The Evo, the STi, and also the old Skyline all have (or will have) iconic status within the genre.

And, staying on topic, lightweight early cars with 3.6 engines can be wicked fast.
__________________
Garen (87 930 track rat)
Old 08-23-2007, 11:00 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #45 (permalink)
Registered User
 
onboost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Metro DC
Posts: 5,319
Hmmmmmm...


I just can't see myself pulling up at a business function or formal affair or even the drug store in some winged-out Evo puffing nitrous out the hood and chirping from its pop-off valve.

On the other had I can take that modded & rodded fire breathing rowdy 930 anywhere and the valet boys are drooling and ricer boy's women are going "why don't you get something like that honey?" Like someone else mentioned... some of these cars are 30 yrs old.. they still look gorgeous, demand respect from both on-lookers and the driver, and we continue to mod, drive & pamper these cars.

I'd also have a problem dropping $30 large or more for something with-out any real heritage etc.. Part of the rub with some of these cars like the Evo, the STi, the old Skyline, the Supras Turbo Z cars and such.. is at that at the end of the day you're still pushing a ricer.

Call it snob appeal or what ever you want, a Porsche Turbo is, and will always be a performance Icon!

Now bow down and kiss the ring!!


Oh and back to topic... +1 with what Garen said about the lightwieghtearly cars...


P-
__________________
RGruppe #180
So many cars..so little time!!
Old 08-24-2007, 08:10 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #46 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,062
Garage
Geez Paul way to put the smack down on!
Old 08-24-2007, 09:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #47 (permalink)
Registered User
 
DW SD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Encinitas (San Diego CA)
Posts: 4,495
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDDD View Post
A 3.6 will put out 300 hp at the crank with all the fixings and an open exhaust.

A rebuilt 930 turbo engine will put out 440 rear wheel hp with a 'standard' build, and hp can go up a lot from there.....

A 930 can lose a lot of weight through fiberglass parts and interior lightening.

So you can achieve better performance with either a 911 or 930, depending on the route you want to take.
DDDD-
I was surprised to read that you suggest 440 RWHP is a standard build, and yet your signature says 400 crank HP?

Why not run a standard build?

Doug
__________________
1971 RSR - interpretation
Old 08-28-2007, 08:24 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #48 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by onboost View Post
Hmmmmmm...


I just can't see myself pulling up at a business function or formal affair or even the drug store in some winged-out Evo puffing nitrous out the hood and chirping from its pop-off valve.

On the other had I can take that modded & rodded fire breathing rowdy 930 anywhere and the valet boys are drooling and ricer boy's women are going "why don't you get something like that honey?" Like someone else mentioned... some of these cars are 30 yrs old.. they still look gorgeous, demand respect from both on-lookers and the driver, and we continue to mod, drive & pamper these cars.

I'd also have a problem dropping $30 large or more for something with-out any real heritage etc.. Part of the rub with some of these cars like the Evo, the STi, the old Skyline, the Supras Turbo Z cars and such.. is at that at the end of the day you're still pushing a ricer.

Call it snob appeal or what ever you want, a Porsche Turbo is, and will always be a performance Icon!

Now bow down and kiss the ring!!


Oh and back to topic... +1 with what Garen said about the lightwieghtearly cars...


P-
Wow, comments about the 930 don't get any better than that! AMEN
Old 08-28-2007, 03:53 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #49 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,077
Quote:
Originally Posted by DW SD View Post
DDDD-
I was surprised to read that you suggest 440 RWHP is a standard build, and yet your signature says 400 crank HP?

Why not run a standard build?

Doug
My car came this way when I bought it.

If you would like to do some research, perhaps you can look up the websites of either: Imagine Auto, Pat Williams Racing, Protomotive, Prototech, Rennsports, Powerhaus, ect..

Inform yourself about what is the norm these days. Around 440 to the wheels is a typical build without getting into anything exotic. Retaining CIS, in fact.

Hope that helps! I would be happy to upgrade my engine if you would like to sponsor me.

For what it is worth, I have lowered gearing and my car is currently under 2600 pounds, and headed lower. The engine upgrade will have to wait until something breaks.

Last edited by DDDD; 08-30-2007 at 05:08 PM..
Old 08-28-2007, 08:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #50 (permalink)
Registered User
 
petri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Finland
Posts: 325
Garage
I love the difference and variating characteristics of strong cars from different species: I don't see too much of point in discussion either... or. I think rather both...and option is better. That is why Im collecting cars I like.
What comes to rally-oriented cars: I think the cars which has changed the history makes the point. WRX and Evo has their point as being the most used N-group cars of the last decade. But they are not even near in comparison to Ur-quattro.
3 years ago EVO-magazine tested original 220hp street Ur-Quattro Evo 7 WRX of that year: this more than 20 year old Ur-Q was capable of competing equally both in gravel, snow and ice. Only difference came on tarmac, mostly because of the power difference. But yes, the concept of Evo and WRX are excellent in my opinion.

A honest question: how many of participants in this topic has driven both 3,6/911 earlier switch and 930 either stock or non-stock and bases his/her opinion to their own expereience?

Just now I'm in the process to try to buy 3,6L -77 conversion as an addition to our car family. Compared to highly tuned RSR-style IROC-replica of my friend I was comparing in this topic earlier to my own highly modded 930, the one very fine - more stock - example I've been now investigating and testing is very nice and comfortable ride. It will be an excellent track day ride for my wife (who is quite capable in track as well), but still I'm struggling with the thought that it is way slower than our everyday ride 951 now. It is well done with a proper brake and suspension upgrade and turbo-wide body and proper tyres.

I love really a lot fast cars and I don't mean 3,6 911 would be slow, but it is not anything enormous, what comes to performance if it is not build to the latest performance spec.
Still I must admit I don't know how stock 930 feels. I drove one very fine -76 otherwise original condition 930, except the engine (with 400hp in it), the major concern for me in that particular car was very questionable brakes (as they were well maintained stock brakes). If you have a 3,6L / 911 earlier conversion, its usability and feel of performance absolutely needs a well chosen brake upgrade. Like earlier 930s as I see.
Lately I've been looking for my 930 now rather 380mm carbon brakes (to update my 350mm Big Reds, which has their limitations on track when pushing very hard).
I've also understood that if you have a 3,6 conversion, you have to have changed also torsion bars minimum up to 930 bars as well as swaybars, because of the heavier and stronger engine.
What I'm trying to point out here, that if you have a correct way build 3,6 conversion or stock 930, both must have relatively similar brakes and suspension. And as far as the body (maybe also chassis) would be near the same to suit tires with same width to optimize mechanic grip, there is really a difference in 0,3-0,6L engine size. I can't see how come that would be more as an advantage compared to turbo?
I don't see earlier 911 as it is just if you mount a 3,6 into it as a working car without other modifications just mentioned here. It would be a real **** to drive and therefore you can't say its faster than the other.
Am I wrong?
__________________
Garage: Strosek 911 RUF BTR|Strosek 911 3.6 rat RSR|Strosek 928SR|928S4R|928S|996C2RSR...and more... Altogether 11 Germans - 3 Italians - 2 British
Old 08-28-2007, 10:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #51 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,408
Garage
Yes you are wrong.
Just kidding

The question posed is very simple and straight forward; would a 2600 pound 911 with a 915 and 3.6L engine be quicker than a bone stock 930 of the same (~280) HP rating.

The answer is an easy yes due to the weight, gearing and non turbo lag advantages of the 911 transplant.

I personlly disagree that transplant cars need bigger brakes and suspensions or they will be undriveable. I doubled the power level of my SC and added only larger torsion bars to fight the squat on boost. As a street car it drives and brakes just fine. It all depends on your needs.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 08-29-2007, 10:50 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #52 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
petri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Finland
Posts: 325
Garage
Quote:

Edit .01 Yes you are wrong.
Just kidding

Edit .02: The question posed is very simple and straight forward; would a 2600 pound 911 with a 915 and 3.6L engine be quicker than a bone stock 930 of the same (~280) HP rating. The answer is an easy yes due to the weight, gearing and non turbo lag advantages of the 911 transplant.

Edit 03: I personlly disagree that transplant cars need bigger brakes and suspensions or they will be undriveable.
Response:
.01 I'm right, your'e right. See the following:
.02 Yes, I agree. And if you are right in this point, see the following.
.03 I disagree: honestly 930 has itself very ****ty original brakes up to 965 have reasonable ones (note: if you have an original historic very valuable piece of 930 still with original parts, please don't upgrade it!!!) and as far as I know, any 911 (except factory RSR race cars with 917 brakes) didn't have anything better than 930 compared to the power/weight ratio.
Therefore - as if 930 doesn't have the brakes it deserves because of it's capability, how come any 911 transplant would have that?

I see your point Rarly, of course in the regular traffic with an excellent brake pads (Ferodo 2500 or no higher) and excellent brake fluids (Motul RBF 600 or so) you can do a braking or two with reasonable co efficiency with the upgraded engine. But if you consider 911 transplant even faster than 930 stock (which already has a questionable brakes, which maybe they were about to be ok compared to the others in that time, but not any more today), why you shouldn't consider upgrading the brakes as well?

And - honestly - if you put 3,3 turbo or 3,6L NA to the SC, the rear spring bars are not any more enough: the manouverability of hte car really becomes very unsafe: they are way too soft even to keep the car in balance (the rear will drop too deep when accelerating and in curves and especially when braking, the major problem of the 911 handling (the tail will have a strong lift movement after you lift the gas pedal) will be due to create steering problems.

I wouldn't recommend anyone to do 911 transplant without just mentioned changes. Not even to streeet and traffic use.

Anyway, don't feel any offense _0_ .

PS. I finished the deal about Strosek 965 turbowide 911 -77 / 964-3,6L conversion (see www.strosek.de, classics, 965) as to be a daily driver to my wife, but it has 928S4/951S brakes, 930 suspension and swaybars etc.

Take care of the people you care ;D
__________________
Garage: Strosek 911 RUF BTR|Strosek 911 3.6 rat RSR|Strosek 928SR|928S4R|928S|996C2RSR...and more... Altogether 11 Germans - 3 Italians - 2 British

Last edited by petri; 08-29-2007 at 12:15 PM..
Old 08-29-2007, 12:10 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #53 (permalink)
Forced Induction Junkie
 
WERK I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,290
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by petri View Post
Response:
.03 I disagree: honestly 930 has itself very ****ty original brakes up to 965 have reasonable ones (note: if you have an original historic very valuable piece of 930 still with original parts, please don't upgrade it!!!) and as far as I know, any 911 (except factory RSR race cars with 917 brakes) didn't have anything better than 930 compared to the power/weight ratio.
Therefore - as if 930 doesn't have the brakes it deserves because of it's capability, how come any 911 transplant would have that?

I see your point Rarly, of course in the regular traffic with an excellent brake pads (Ferodo 2500 or no higher) and excellent brake fluids (Motul RBF 600 or so) you can do a braking or two with reasonable co efficiency with the upgraded engine. But if you consider 911 transplant even faster than 930 stock (which already has a questionable brakes, which maybe they were about to be ok compared to the others in that time, but not any more today), why you shouldn't consider upgrading the brakes as well?...........
...........Not even to street and traffic use.
-1 With all due respect, one big time disagree with the notion the 930 (1978-1989) brakes are marginal. Unless you are doing serious tracking with the 930's, the brakes are excellent. And if you are tracking the 930, the first thing one should be doing is putting the car on a serious weight reduction.
__________________
Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 08-30-2007, 06:14 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #54 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Danville - CA
Posts: 1,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDDD View Post

Inform yourself about what is the norm these days. Around 440 to the wheels is a typical build without getting into anything exotic. Retaining CIS, in fact.

.

440 to the wheels retaining CIS is more than just a little more than optimistic. That is 500+ hp to the crank which is far from a standard CIS build. With the normal modifications such as turbo, headers, exhaust, cams and fuel enrichment 440 to the Crank could still take some coaxing depending on individual components selected.
__________________
Rob Montgomery
'88 Blk/Blk 930 ('Lucy') - Not Stock & Not Running

Last edited by 930LDR; 08-30-2007 at 06:32 AM..
Old 08-30-2007, 06:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #55 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,077
Quote:
Originally Posted by 930LDR View Post
440 to the wheels retaining CIS is more than just a little more than optimistic. That is 500+ hp to the crank which is far from a standard CIS build. With the normal modifications such as turbo, headers, exhaust, cams and fuel enrichment 440 to the Crank could still take some coaxing depending on individual components selected.


All those websites I mentioned can achieve around 480-500 hp with modified CIS fuel heads. The tuners would always prefer to add EFI, and with EFI, you are getting right into the 500's.

It is pretty much the standard type builds that they offer. Call them and that is what they offer. Most have it down to a package offer.

Clearly, most people go to EFI anyway, but I really don't need to split hairs over what is the exact definition of a standard build, whether it involves CIS work or EFI or what is an exact horsepower figure.

I consider a standard build to be what is straight forward and easily done by the majority of tuners out there. 500 crank horsepower in a 930 is simply not difficult to achieve. EFI is clearly a better choice at that level, but still somewhat optional. Tuners will modify a CIS right up to it's cut off point, which is about 500 crank. That is what they do for a living.

My car has nothing more than top end work and some extra fuel flow through the CIS and puts out plenty of power to burn ALMOST ANY (edited for Facey) normally aspirated 911. The turbo lag lasts a second, but I can avoid that 99% of the time with correct shifting.

Last edited by DDDD; 08-31-2007 at 02:38 PM..
Old 08-30-2007, 07:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #56 (permalink)
Registered User
 
petri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Finland
Posts: 325
Garage
Quote:
1 With all due respect, one big time disagree with the notion the 930 (1978-1989) brakes are marginal.
Yes, I admit I was slightly provokative. True: 78-89 they do work for the traffic ok, but I don't think they are excellent. Especially before 78 they are next to no brakes to me. This is of course my personal opinion.
My point is that if you are doing engine switch, please upgrade your brakes and suspension to reach equal level with performance.
If you do some serious tuning to your turbo, please upgrade your brakes and suspension...
I don't see any other way to do acceptable alterations to 930 or 911.
__________________
Garage: Strosek 911 RUF BTR|Strosek 911 3.6 rat RSR|Strosek 928SR|928S4R|928S|996C2RSR...and more... Altogether 11 Germans - 3 Italians - 2 British
Old 08-30-2007, 08:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #57 (permalink)
user & abuser
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Posts: 1,304
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDDD View Post
My car has nothing more than top end work and some extra fuel flow through the CIS and puts out plenty of power to burn any normally aspirated 911.
thats a pretty huge claim, has your car been on a dyno?
you believe you that 4sp 400hp car will take down teo's 385hp n/a 6-speed car????

someone asked above how many of us have actually driven both a 3.6 transplant, and a turbo... i can say 100% yes to both and add a non 3.6 transplant, and a modified turbo (something like DDDD's).

I drive daily my 3.5L transplant (different i know, but similar),
my car previosuly was a 3L into a midyear.
i've drive a 86 turbo with k27, B&B headers with a sc cam, no doubt once on boost it was fast.
also driven a BONE stock, show room example of a 79 turbo (3L year?), and the lag was much more noticable, and power was down below 4k...


never did back to back with anythign other then the 3L and 79 turbo, and even with those you'd have to get into tripple digit speed for the 79 to truly be beating thr 3L...


i guess another issue is what makes a standard build, myself i don't consider having an engine built by a premier tuner a standard build, a standard build is what a guy does to modify his 930, mostly at home, or a local shop, would be somehting like the 86 turbo i drove.... and its not making 400rwhp....

imo peoples hp/performance goals and abilites get scewed from the extreme builds. beepbeeps, petri's, etc.... their cars are now in another realm of performance, where 930 brakes are not enough...lol

mean while, the public and majority of drivers see normal 911 brakes as excellent, 930 brakes as overkill... lets face it, i'm not going to get up to 120mph then need full brakes for 20+laps, not even once..
in auto-x i get up to ~60mph, and need full brakes twice..
lol


anyways, has been a fun thread to read, soryr that i got back invloved but i think the thread has cooled down and is just chit chat again !

cheers
Nick
__________________
vini vidi vici
Old 08-30-2007, 10:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #58 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,077
Yes my car has been on a dyno. An 86 turbo is not quite like mine. We may have similiar hp. But my car weighs easily 300 lbs less than an 86 with my weight savings combined with the big difference in weight from the factory. Secondly, my lowered gearing is worth 50 hp according to several tuners I have talked to. So large weight difference and low gearing which means I am essentially never off the boost once I am under way. I am in the boost curve 99% of the time unless I get really lazy with my shifting.

Teo spent something like over 50 grand on his engine alone, let alone the rest of the car. I know Steve Timmins, who built that car, and I have seen dyno charts of 3.9 builds from him. They don't have the torque of a turbo on boost.

Are there a handful of normally aspirated 911s out there that are faster than mildly modded cars like mine, sure. At a cost of three times my entire car. My engine is a mild build, not a ground up custom job.

For 34 grand, Steve will build a twin turbo 3.9 with all the fixings, good for 700+ hp. I could lay waste to any normally aspirated 911 with that and keep the change in my savings account. Same displacement, twice the horsepower.

Porsche made 700 hp out of the 3.0 litre engine back in the mid 70's.

You need an 8 litre normally aspirated engine to keep up with that power output. Not a 3.9.

The bottom line is that any turbo build is going to toast a normally aspirated build, all other things being equal.

If you want to compare a bone stock turbo to a maxxed out 3.6 conversion, that is fine. My point is don't assume you will run into a stock turbo on the street because the turbo is being taken to a whole different level these days. You can lose the same weight in a turbo, within about 60-70 pounds, yet you can run DOUBLE the horsepower.

For 12 grand, Imagine Auto will build a 440 rwhp CIS car for anybody who wants it. Is that outrageously expensive for a Porsche engine build?

Last edited by DDDD; 08-31-2007 at 02:51 PM..
Old 08-30-2007, 02:27 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #59 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,196
$12,000.

As the owner of a 438 RWHP, no way. $24,000 -
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-30-2007, 03:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #60 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:42 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.