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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig 930 RS View Post
$12,000.

As the owner of a 438 RWHP, no way. $24,000 -
http://imagineauto.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=II&Product_Code=930STAGE3



I guess I just have to dig up the link.

By the way, Steve Timmins will build a 3.6 Turbo with a 7,500 redline and DTA EFI for $28,000. Bottom to top. And you get to keep your engine.

All other things equal, a 930 will be faster than a 911.

And yes, a bone stock 930 might be slower than a light weight, conversion 3.6, especially around town.

Last edited by DDDD; 08-31-2007 at 03:32 PM..
Old 08-30-2007, 04:28 PM
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I now have north of 100K in mine and I am neither pleased nor proud of having done so. The car will be delivered to my home in time for my return from my Roman Holiday, I am leaving this weekend for 10 days in Rome, I will give a full report on the car when I return.
Old 08-30-2007, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SCHNELE View Post
I now have north of 100K in mine and I am neither pleased nor proud of having done so. The car will be delivered to my home in time for my return from my Roman Holiday, I am leaving this weekend for 10 days in Rome, I will give a full report on the car when I return.
Sounds like you have outspent Teo.....would like to see the result!
Old 08-30-2007, 06:17 PM
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I threw away several months and tons of money with the first shop so not really the scale of Matteo's car but I will probably have 150hp more than Matteo's car though not as light but 40% more torque. My estimation is based on a previous build that belongs to Ollie -OMS930- on this board who has a very square motor that makes near 550RWHP and 525+ lb/ft of torque.
Old 08-30-2007, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petri View Post
Response:

And - honestly - if you put 3,3 turbo or 3,6L NA to the SC, the rear spring bars are not any more enough: the manouverability of hte car really becomes very unsafe: they are way too soft even to keep the car in balance (the rear will drop too deep when accelerating and in curves and especially when braking, the major problem of the 911 handling (the tail will have a strong lift movement after you lift the gas pedal) will be due to create steering problems.

I wouldn't recommend anyone to do 911 transplant without just mentioned changes. Not even to streeet and traffic use.
I have had my conversion on the streets for maybe 6 years and 30k miles. I didn't change my spring rates. They are still stock. My car is very safe and manuverable. It squats and goes. I did upgrade my brake though.
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Old 08-31-2007, 06:05 AM
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3.6 in an SC - the 3.6 Vario 79SC I had with 22/29 torsions made short work of any track day.
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Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-31-2007, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHNELE View Post
I threw away several months and tons of money with the first shop so not really the scale of Matteo's car but I will probably have 150hp more than Matteo's car though not as light but 40% more torque. My estimation is based on a previous build that belongs to Ollie -OMS930- on this board who has a very square motor that makes near 550RWHP and 525+ lb/ft of torque.
550 rear wheel hp would be about 225 more hp than Teo, as an approximation of crank hp.

I have a funny feeling that your build will also surprise us on the upside.
Old 08-31-2007, 03:44 PM
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Dave at Speedwerks said I will definitely be surprised.
Old 08-31-2007, 05:29 PM
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525+ ft/lbs of torque? There is no normally aspirated 911 engine on the planet that will touch that, nomatter how much money you throw at it.

I understand that owners of RSR replicas and the like need a normally aspirated engine to properly emmulate the car they are copying but I still shake my head when thinking about all the money and effort put forth to end up with less power and a lot less torque than you would get from a built 930. You gotta want that sreaming banchie sound really bad.
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Old 08-31-2007, 09:08 PM
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Brian if you are ever in South East Michigan call me up for a ride.
Old 09-01-2007, 06:09 AM
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Red face

few minor notes to start,
teo's engine was assembled by S. Timmins, but it was tuned and set-up by Peter Dawe, IMO theres a biggggggg differance there.

secondly, there is defiently something to be said about N/A throttle response, and sound. not everyone want to hear blow off valves whistling and wastegates dumping. The other question really is, how fast do you need to go, is 385hp in 2600lbs not enough? I've heard the you can never have to much arguement, but that seems like an ego problem not a real response.

550(est)-385 does not equal 225, and if you think that engine will even be compareable to teo's throttle response, and true F-6 song under full throttle (@7600rpm) then your more of a turbo guy then a porsche guy.


the problem with that 930 vs 911 statment is that most often, all other things are not equal. the 911 often weighs in much lighter, and usually has more gears.


We need to get excellence to compare 4 cars; stock 3L (or less), stock 930, modded 930, and one of the 3.6 transplants.
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Old 09-01-2007, 02:26 PM
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Boils down to just a few things:

1) Throttle response - while above 3k, in my 930 you'd be very hard pressed to tell
if it is a N/A car or not. Really? Yep. Torque and RPM flexibility is where a Turbo really shines.

2) Power to weight - on average, a 930 might weigh 200 lbs more.
What weighs more - fenders, trans, the turbo & IC itself.......these don't add up to much.

3) Above a certain level, getting big HP out of a NA engine is much more expensive.
A 3.4L CIS Turbo simply does not cost a fortune to produce reliable, safe HP.

4) Tolerance for maintenance and watching several critical items - MUCH more involved with a Turbo.
You MUST be vigilant with a Turbo, esp if used on track.

5) Personal preference
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"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 09-01-2007, 03:16 PM
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Facey I am not sure I follw your reference to Matteo's engine
"teo's engine was assembled by S. Timmins, but it was tuned and set-up by Peter Dawe, IMO theres a biggggggg differance there."
First I am not competing with anyone here, Peter Dawe and Timmins are well respected but so are many others that you haven't heard of don't feel bad, there are a lot of shops out there that won't bother to take a build like mine because there are other customers with "Race Team" budgets that are vying for their services.
I am looking to be at 550RWHP, Teo's car is 385 at the crank where is the comparison? Henceforth let the numbers do the talking.
Old 09-01-2007, 08:04 PM
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This may be a little of topic, but I currently have a daily driver that is a 3.6 conversion. It is a 84 carrera with FG bumpers, and a few other weight saving parts. Motor has B&B exhaust, Elgin cams and springs, SW 93oct chip, ltw flywheel, re-geared 915 and a few other small mods. Car runs exceptionally well and gets 25 mpg if I keep my foot out of it. I have had my share of other cars taunting me and am proud to say I have not been left behind(never bite of more than you can chew). It has been very dependable and I have taken many long trips with it. I have put on over 18K miles in last 14 months.
With that said, I have been wanting more power lately. Could I have same kind of reliability and fuel mileage if I added a turbo or a supercharger? What kind of gains could be expected at an entry level setup?
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Old 09-01-2007, 10:24 PM
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This may be a little of topic, but I currently have a daily driver that is a 3.6 conversion. It is a 84 carrera with FG bumpers, and a few other weight saving parts. Motor has B&B exhaust, Elgin cams and springs, SW 93oct chip, ltw flywheel, re-geared 915 and a few other small mods. Car runs exceptionally well and gets 25 mpg if I keep my foot out of it. I have had my share of other cars taunting me and am proud to say I have not been left behind(never bite of more than you can chew). It has been very dependable and I have taken many long trips with it. I have put on over 18K miles in last 14 months.
With that said, I have been wanting more power lately. Could I have same kind of reliability and fuel mileage if I added a turbo or a supercharger? What kind of gains could be expected at an entry level setup?
BINGO!

For most people, a 3.6 conversion is great.

But if you just have to have a fire-breathing monster, than you need to go turbo.

That is all I have been saying all along.

The turbo/supercharger is for those of us that always want MORE.

For the people out there that simply want to floor it and hit warp 9.9, the normal aspirated Porsche engine is never going to be fast enough.

Yeah, some of us want an 'extreme' ride. I want the scene outside my windshield to look like Star Trek when I hit the gas, and that is what the turbo does best.

I put up with the initial lag to get the extra kick in the pants.
Old 09-02-2007, 11:18 AM
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I think it is a shame that we are comparing Matteo's car to a 930.

I would love to have his car, but I would keep my 930 as well.

Matteo has a wonderful, one of a kind car. Matteo has reached the absolute outer limits of the 911 concept, and for that he is to be recognized and his car is respected. That is why I hate to try to compare his car to 930s, which really are fundamentally different due to the totally off the charts power capability.

I think we all would love to have his car. At the same time, some of us wouldn't be so quick to just give away our 930s either.
Old 09-02-2007, 11:40 AM
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For fun, and as a (fairly lame & limited) demonstration of what a 3.6 and a Turbo feels like, play the movies on my signature line - dyno runs of both.
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Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 09-02-2007, 01:55 PM
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anyone here have a 930 that can actually chase down cup cars and gt3's??? not in a striaghtline, but on a road course?

to be honest turbo's aren't then end and for me because aside from the lag, sound, and maitenance, alot of their power is just not useable. out at the auto crosses there's lots of highly boosted 300zxTT's, single turbo skylines, rx-7's etc... but they certaintly cannot lay the power down.... then they often say that their car was built for straight line speed, but will loose everytime to a well build american striaghtline car.
aside from the fully built ~1000hp evo, a nice 383 (basic build actually does = 450hp,500lbft ~$4500) with a gear vendors underdrive/overdrive unit (500-2300) will WALK on these 'straight line cars'....

but then again i guess the arguement could be made to add a turbo to that same engine and you now have north of 700hp...lol.....

somewhere between speed, money and senseability there is a limit to how fast your going to go.


- i'm willing to bet that most of the 930 guys here would switch happily for teo's car....

as to Peter Dawe, he is an enginer tuner/builder/racer of the upmost level, not someone who is bascially a hobbiest or w/e you wanna call it, he's by no means the normal tuner garage was my point. His understanding and resources go well beyond.


craig summed it up very well,
"1) Throttle response"
"2) Power to weight "
"3)reliable, safe HP"
"4) maintenance "
"5)Personal preference " ****
(if i miss represented your words toss me a pm)
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Old 09-02-2007, 04:55 PM
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I have to admit facey is probably right here, most of us probably would switch cars with teo.
What he forgets is that once we had hold of the car we would slap a couple turbos on that puppy.
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Old 09-02-2007, 06:00 PM
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I have to admit facey is probably right here, most of us probably would switch cars with teo.
What he forgets is that once we had hold of the car we would slap a couple turbos on that puppy.
lol, to each his own i guess
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Old 09-02-2007, 06:44 PM
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