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Crew Chief
 
prooutlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Wilkesboro, NC
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Intercooler - more fuel ?

When you change intercoolers from stock to Garrettson do you also have to upgrade the fuel supply ?
It seems that i am running out of fuel with the garrettson but it runs fine with the stock cooler
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Herbert B.
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Carolinas Region PCA Member
National PCA Driving Instructor
_______________

'71 911 RSR look
'74 914 2.0
'76 911S Targa
'83 930S Slantnose (13000 miles)
'86 951 Prototype Testcar built in '84 (56000 miles) Serial #00014
'86 951
'87 944

"Life is short , drive Fast"
Old 09-05-2007, 05:34 AM
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What indications are you getting that tells you your running lean. I.e. Power loss? Is the engine stock? If its anywhere near stock the IC shouldnt make a difference. Pressure check the IC and make sure it doesnt have a leak. (On boost the car would run rich). I dont think the IC is the issue.

Bob
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1 bad 930
Old 09-05-2007, 06:06 AM
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The car has a 7th injector with a dial , if i run it with the same setting as the stock cooler it is missing in the upper RPM and shuts off for a second on the gear change.
When i max the 7th injector out the miss goes away but i still have the hesitation on the gear change.
If i change gears slowly it is fine.
It runs the same boost with either cooler , so i dont see it having a leak
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Herbert B.
GruppeB #093
Carolinas Region PCA Member
National PCA Driving Instructor
_______________

'71 911 RSR look
'74 914 2.0
'76 911S Targa
'83 930S Slantnose (13000 miles)
'86 951 Prototype Testcar built in '84 (56000 miles) Serial #00014
'86 951
'87 944

"Life is short , drive Fast"
Old 09-05-2007, 06:30 AM
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Remove the 7th injector setup, install the adjustable WUR, adjust & check AFRs on the dyno.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 09-05-2007, 08:45 AM
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Craig,
do you have a link to Brian Leask ?
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Herbert B.
GruppeB #093
Carolinas Region PCA Member
National PCA Driving Instructor
_______________

'71 911 RSR look
'74 914 2.0
'76 911S Targa
'83 930S Slantnose (13000 miles)
'86 951 Prototype Testcar built in '84 (56000 miles) Serial #00014
'86 951
'87 944

"Life is short , drive Fast"
Old 09-06-2007, 11:50 AM
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Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
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bleask@cox.net

Im my experienced and not-so-humble-opion, there is a right way to do these things and Brian Leask is about the most knowledeable you will find with regards to CIS Turbo fuel management.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 09-06-2007, 12:40 PM
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Thanks Craig , i e-mailed Brian
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Herbert B.
GruppeB #093
Carolinas Region PCA Member
National PCA Driving Instructor
_______________

'71 911 RSR look
'74 914 2.0
'76 911S Targa
'83 930S Slantnose (13000 miles)
'86 951 Prototype Testcar built in '84 (56000 miles) Serial #00014
'86 951
'87 944

"Life is short , drive Fast"
Old 09-06-2007, 01:14 PM
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The funny part is , with the stock inter cooler the car runs fine .
But with the other inter cooler i have the problem.
You can actually feel the difference in power on the inter coolers
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Herbert B.
GruppeB #093
Carolinas Region PCA Member
National PCA Driving Instructor
_______________

'71 911 RSR look
'74 914 2.0
'76 911S Targa
'83 930S Slantnose (13000 miles)
'86 951 Prototype Testcar built in '84 (56000 miles) Serial #00014
'86 951
'87 944

"Life is short , drive Fast"
Old 09-06-2007, 01:16 PM
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Which IC makes more power?

You should get an Innovate LM-1 or an XD-16.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products.php

Buy it from www.imagineauto.com
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 09-11-2007, 01:46 AM
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The Garrettson makes a noticable difference in Power
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Herbert B.
GruppeB #093
Carolinas Region PCA Member
National PCA Driving Instructor
_______________

'71 911 RSR look
'74 914 2.0
'76 911S Targa
'83 930S Slantnose (13000 miles)
'86 951 Prototype Testcar built in '84 (56000 miles) Serial #00014
'86 951
'87 944

"Life is short , drive Fast"
Old 09-11-2007, 04:06 AM
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Yeah, what they said. Do a run with LM1 and check for yourself if you really have a lean condition.

You mentioned that it "shuts down for a second on gear change". This is suspicious and shouldn't be AFR-related. Is old BOV reused? Is there a BOV connected? New intercooler sure flows better but everything is still drawn trough CIS anyway and i doubt your new intercooler improves th airflow to such degree that it pegs the CIS.

Check for leaks, check that your BOV is operating and do a LM1 run. You don't need dyno for this.

Regards,
Goran
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Old 09-11-2007, 06:09 AM
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I changed the BOV and it did not help , no leaks.
i guess i need to get a LM1
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Herbert B.
GruppeB #093
Carolinas Region PCA Member
National PCA Driving Instructor
_______________

'71 911 RSR look
'74 914 2.0
'76 911S Targa
'83 930S Slantnose (13000 miles)
'86 951 Prototype Testcar built in '84 (56000 miles) Serial #00014
'86 951
'87 944

"Life is short , drive Fast"
Old 09-11-2007, 06:56 AM
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How is BOV routed on this setup? What did you change?

BOV is integrated in intermediate throttle manifold on OEM 3.3 930 engine and is somewhat ambiguous when it comes to operating procedure.

Are you still using old integrated BOV aka "the clapper"? Are control hoses connected in same fashion as on old intercooler?

Reason I'm asking this is beacuse it sounds like your overboost switch is tripping on shifts, which usually happends when BOV is not operating correctly. Turbo still spins beacuse of inertia and tries to pack air into closed throttle, which trips the switch until turbo slows down a bit.
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Old 09-11-2007, 10:41 AM
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I too was thinking that he was tripping his overboost switch.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 09-11-2007, 12:57 PM
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No overboost switch !
Stock intercooler uses the stock manifold
Garrettson uses the C2 style
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Herbert B.
GruppeB #093
Carolinas Region PCA Member
National PCA Driving Instructor
_______________

'71 911 RSR look
'74 914 2.0
'76 911S Targa
'83 930S Slantnose (13000 miles)
'86 951 Prototype Testcar built in '84 (56000 miles) Serial #00014
'86 951
'87 944

"Life is short , drive Fast"
Old 09-11-2007, 01:30 PM
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7.0:1 > 11.3:1
 
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Herbert, I'm sorry to hear that this issue is continuing to drag on. I believe this is the intercooler which I sold to you. I should still have some intallation pictures from my car if you think it may help.

Perhaps you could post up several close-up pictures of your installation to see if anyone notices something amis.

How much boost are you running?

Have you tried to unplug the 7th injector (at the injector) and do a trial run? My thought is that the extra injector might be spraying during the shift, causing a rich condition just after you shift and get back into the throttle. It would coincide with the issue only being prevelent under high boost shifts.
Old 09-12-2007, 12:23 AM
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How is 7:th injector tripped? With boost-switch connected to intercooler? In that case high boost between shifts might be tripping 7:th injector which floods the plenum with fuel between shifts.
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Old 09-12-2007, 01:13 AM
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Crew Chief
 
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Jim,
could you send me some pictures of your installation ?
Where did the small vacuum line come from that triggers to the BOV ?
If i dont use the 7th injector , the car starts to miss at 5000rpm
running stock boost .8bar
hboehm@wilkes.net
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Herbert B.
GruppeB #093
Carolinas Region PCA Member
National PCA Driving Instructor
_______________

'71 911 RSR look
'74 914 2.0
'76 911S Targa
'83 930S Slantnose (13000 miles)
'86 951 Prototype Testcar built in '84 (56000 miles) Serial #00014
'86 951
'87 944

"Life is short , drive Fast"
Old 09-12-2007, 04:07 AM
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A fellow Pelacanite
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig 930 RS View Post
Remove the 7th injector setup, install the adjustable WUR, adjust & check AFRs on the dyno.
+1 and install an Innovate LM-1 or XD-16.
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 09-12-2007, 06:41 AM
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7.0:1 > 11.3:1
 
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Herbert, I sent several pictures of my installation to your email address.

My thoughts about the seventh injector are exactly the same as Goran's. See beepbeep three post up.

I suspect the issue is something other than your i/c installation because you say the seventh injector is needed in order for the engine to run clean above 5000 rpm, yet you are running stock boost (.8 bar). Since the function of the seventh injector is to add extra fuel for higher than stock boost levels, it appears your engine must be lean misfiring without the seventh injector. As others advise here, best that you get a wide band O2 sensor installed to help with diagnosis. Can you borrow one from someone help get this problem looked into?
Old 09-12-2007, 06:15 PM
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