OBX header fitment issues

[sand_man]

HOLY CRAP...that is a lot of modications to make all of this fit!

[sand_man]

This is as bad as user, kellcats, trying to fit his B&B long neck intercooler!!!! That was a disaster!

[e170drvr]

Well that's no good, I have a set of the gsf sitting in my garage waiting to find the time to put them on. Hope I don't have problems too!

Eric
87 930

[fredmeister]

Hey this question is for Stephen at Imagine Auto:
Could you post a load of pictures showing the install process of the K27S turbo and headers in a step by step fashion along with a few shots of the final finished installation on this forum? This should be something that could show details of whats involved on your web site as well? Nothing too in depth at first but just the major points in the process, highlighting required mods to the stock 930 turbo owners system. This could be added to in the process as time permits. I know you have done alot of these installations and must have documented the process better than most on this forum.

This may give a clear indication of what to expect during this installation and all the necessary modifications that need to be made to make this all go together.
That way if anything out of the ordinary occurs it would help to narrow down the reason for the problems......either bad header design/faulty construction, K27 versus stock 3LDZ dimensional differences, etc.
This would have several advantages:
1) The potential buyer knows exactly what is required in terms of modifications to the engine hardware such as the turbo support bracket, intercooler mounting/shielding, oil line mods or replacement etc. before he purchases the system.
2) When something appears during the install that is more than the mods listed above, the installer knows how to isolate the faulty component or at least the likely reason.
3) No more miscommunication between the buyer and the seller on what is considered drop in bolt on or no modification required. This leads to no ambiguity that quite often gets tagged to poor marketting or what not. This still reflects badly on the company selling the product and leads to ill will on the buyers part when alot more work/expense and time is involved then originally understood.

What do you think?

[GO DAWG GO]

Fredmeister,

I just installed the same headers and encountered precisely the same problems you did. I had to carefully measure the casted turbo up pipe to the IC for length and surmise a net length from many variables and cut a ~3/4 section from the lower 2in diameter area and resurface the tube faces and ground the ID to match the inside profile so it didn't affect intake flow. (make sense?) The tube has been temporarily reassembled using a section of radiator hose, I bought from a local auto parts store. It actually works fine and lowers the IC so it sits at stock height. I have a B&B IC also. I didn't get the large oil hose with the purchase and Stephan says he will send it. I had to mod the oil return tube to clear the cross over tube. I should have removed and cut it and patched in a good oil flex hose to avoid contact with the exhaust. The heaters had the same 2 inch issues. I resolved that with exhaust adapter pipe sections that you can buy from Autozone. I bought 2" to 2 1 /4" adapters for $2.50 a piece. Porsche wants $36 bucks a piece for basically the same thing.. I am now trying to conquer a WG issue and exhaust leaks. The kit came with a poorly sized set of gaskets (IMHO) The exhaust flange gasket center hole dia. is way to big and the screwy aluminum o-rings are to large also. There is no possible way to install them so they seat concentrically meaning centered on the exhaust flange. I'm sure the placement of these gaskets puzzled everyone who looks at them.

By the way, did you install the o-rings between the flange gaskets and the head or between the flange gasket and the header flange. The kit had no instructions and defies any engineering principles that I have been entertained with in 25 years.

also they sit very low...Ground clearance is reduced by 2 inches.

On the flip side with this juryrigged set of headers. They do have a huge increase in power/driveability and performance. The headers will be fine when I resolve two issues the flange gaskets and my Wastegate woes. Actually Stephan said he was going to help me out with the WG problems.

My car hauls ass now..The headers K27HFS and the IC with a 1 bar spring really increased performance. The torque curve is lower and the car will wind to red line like it likes it. Tubo lag is reduced by 800-1000 RPM's.

Thursday night I drove my car down the 210 freeway and was amazed on how much more responsive it is. in 4th at 70 MPH you tag the throttle and there is instant boost and eccelerations in like a jet with afterburners.

On the serious note:

I was looking in the rear view mirror and back about 300 feet or more was what I thought at first was a Dodge Viper behind me. A few seconds later this red beast flew past me trying to stir up a cat and mouse thing...It was a Z06 Vette..I could tell from the little brake vents forward of the rear wheels (I could see them in my side mirrors).
I have instant respect for them and Vipers. I nicely gave him a thumbs up and he looked at me like with "I'm *****in look". So anyway- he wasnt so sure about me. My car has some interesting details that look kind of ominous. The big black brake vents and nice shiny stainless and Aeroquip items visable from the rear..Heat exchangers slightly visable under the 935 boxed rockers. I havnt put on my lower valance back on yet either. Anyway he is trying to stir up a fight and I'm smiling and and thinking this 500+ plus HP Vette is going to SPANK me. Anyway He had that ****_ ty conceded look on this face that was getting annoying. I have the yellow labrador look and just want to be friends. S0... I dropped her down in third and watch my RPM's till I got about ~2500 where my torque curve begins and I just floored it...To my suprise, that Vette snorted and growled, jumped in the air (seriously) and was flexing (Body torsion). I am surprised at my own car's forking ecceleration, like I have never felt the old girl. We stayed neck and neck and he began the creep ahead about walking speed. I was concerned about going to jail and just being stupid.. I let off at only god knows what speed and I had a smile because I thought I was going to be toast. It was a real Z06 and my car did very well. I bet with a little more boost I would have stayed with him or beat him up to where I let off. (I think) I did smell a slight oil oder which concerns me through my sunroof?

You know what is a real kick.?.Floor it in first gear for a second or two..Like being fired from a canon...

I'm going back to the garage and try to fix my exhaust leak...

Bob

[DDDD]

What is the EXACT brand that Stephen is re-selling?

It is not enough to say it may be OBX, it may be GSF, it could be Schnell. It could be Danske. They all look kind of like a B+B header without heat.

[fredmeister]

DDDD,
I think they are GSF headers that Stephen is reselling at a mark up of course. Mine have heat, but they are no where near fitting because the inlet and outlet heater tubes are all over the place. If you read my previous posts, I had to cut and resection them to make them attach to the car with the flexible heater hoses and clear my cv joints!
as far as the exhaust gaskets for the cylinder head connection, the junk they sent with the headers is in the garbage. I used the exhaust gaskets for the normal 911SC that have a stainless steel outer skin with the small -oring around the center port hole incorporated into the gasket. It is all one piece and fit perfectly over the header ends.
Here are some pictures of the install I promised.

[Porschephd]

We are selling the GSF version with a couple of mods before they leave our shop. Agreed on the gaskets we supplied, but to be honest everything else we tried did not work! The flange moves around enough that it causes the gasket to not seat up. So the crush gaskets we send center on the neck that fits up into the header and then will seal when brought up. Believe me, you can not use the standard gaskets with continued success. It will blow out. We also include the oil lines with the kit.

At the end of the day I prefer using the B&Bs but poeple want an alternative. These work pretty well and make the same gains as the big boys.

Danske FWIW is not Dansk either. I will let you guess who is making those

Bob,
Drop me an email or call me on Mon. I have spent the last 4 days on the dyno and road tuning an EFI that is leaving this weekend on the transport.

[Porschephd]

Originally Posted by fredmeister

Hey this question is for Stephen at Imagine Auto:
Could you post a load of pictures showing the install process of the K27S turbo and headers in a step by step fashion along with a few shots of the final finished installation on this forum? This should be something that could show details of whats involved on your web site as well? Nothing too in depth at first but just the major points in the process, highlighting required mods to the stock 930 turbo owners system. This could be added to in the process as time permits. I know you have done alot of these installations and must have documented the process better than most on this forum.

This may give a clear indication of what to expect during this installation and all the necessary modifications that need to be made to make this all go together.
That way if anything out of the ordinary occurs it would help to narrow down the reason for the problems......either bad header design/faulty construction, K27 versus stock 3LDZ dimensional differences, etc.
This would have several advantages:
1) The potential buyer knows exactly what is required in terms of modifications to the engine hardware such as the turbo support bracket, intercooler mounting/shielding, oil line mods or replacement etc. before he purchases the system.
2) When something appears during the install that is more than the mods listed above, the installer knows how to isolate the faulty component or at least the likely reason.
3) No more miscommunication between the buyer and the seller on what is considered drop in bolt on or no modification required. This leads to no ambiguity that quite often gets tagged to poor marketting or what not. This still reflects badly on the company selling the product and leads to ill will on the buyers part when alot more work/expense and time is involved then originally understood.

What do you think?

Fred,

The next time we install one on a car I will do a ton of pic and do one of my write ups. I have pictures, but not with building a how to with them in mnd so they will not be a ton of help. Give me a little time and I will get it done for you.

[NathanUK]

Bob, with driving like that I am guessing that you are pleased you went with the HFS and not just the S

[William930t]

I had to resurrect this thread because I was wondering if fredmeister got the OBX/GSF heat exchangers installed? Also, is the reduced ground clearance (scraping) a problem with typical street driving?

I am in the market for upgrading to headers & heat with my yet to be installed k27-7200.

[race911turbo]

Sorry about the heating inlet tube for the header with heat, the inlet tube need to be cut shorter. but the new batch of header is with right length and right size tube.

I installl the header with heat or without.....no problem....

K-27 turbocharger .......no problem.......

Stock 3LDZ with CIS......no problem......

Garrett GT-35R turbocharger ......no problem.....

The new batch header are made with longer inserts.

[race911turbo]

GT-35 R turbocharger with V-band clamp

[race911turbo]

Corvette Z-06 six piston brake caliper on 1989 930

[spence88mph]

exhaust looks good but just couldn't stomach putting GM parts on my 911....

[Craig 930 RS]

Huh.....this all points back to buying GHL or B&B, despite the extra cost.

[race911turbo]

The brake caliper is made by PBR for GM....Each caliper has 6 pads for front, 4 pads for rear... ...this arrangement = less heat transfer and faster reaction.

[fredmeister]

William930t,
I did get the install completed....have been runnign it with no issues to date. Even have a few track days on the system and no leaks or exhaust trouble. Except for the frequent occurence of the plugs coming loose and falling out on the air injection ports on my cylinder heads.
First time one came out at Mid Ohio sounded like a blew a cylinder head leak or studs were broken. Found out that a 1/8 NPT pipe plug works pretty well to plug the hoel in the head, it was not fun trying to find a metric plug at the general hardware store in Mansfield Ohio!
Drop me a PM if you want more info on what I did to make it all work.
Good luck

[les_garten]

Originally Posted by spence88mph

exhaust looks good but just couldn't stomach putting GM parts on my 911....

I hear ya! BUT, they are great brakes and cheap compared to Brembo's or Porsche's. GSF sells them on his webpage.