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Alan L's Avatar
 
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This is all good stuff guys. I'm interested in the differential aspects. My previous race car, I locked the diff solid to do exactly as Spuggy suggests. Anything less simply caused erratic wheel spin - the car needed both wheels transmitting full power all the time. Even then it would wheel spin in top in the wet. The locked diff was great on track but 3 point turns were 10 point turns on street. Either that or boot it around the traffic island, which did tend to draw some unwanted attention.
How do I know what type of diff I have on the car?
Where do I access the options?
How do I pressurise the boost system to check the cut out on the switch? I must tee in somewhere, or alternatively I thought of making up a piece that I could screw the switch into - with a pressure gauge and tee piece for pressurised air.
Alan
Old 09-14-2007, 12:33 PM
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You will need to remove that switch to test it.

As for your airbox I wouldn't worry about it. That air filter looks fine on your car.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

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Old 09-14-2007, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
My previous race car, I locked the diff solid to do exactly as Spuggy suggests.
I didn't suggest that you lock the diff solid.

You might find this interesting:

http://www.guardtransmission.com/velocity.htm

Quote:
How do I know what type of diff I have on the car?
Dismantle the gearbox and look? Alternatively, look through any receipts or ask the PO. Car's not stock, it could have anything (or nothing) in there.

If it's still the factory unit, it's a ZF - but they don't offer the best lockup rates, aren't tunable, don't last long between services, you can no longer get spares for them (from ZF at least, parts for the GT LSDs replace OEM parts according to their website), and they don't do what you want anyway.

Quote:
How do I pressurise the boost system to check the cut out on the switch?
1) Remove switch.

2) Clamp switch carefully

3) Attach ohmmeter between switch housing and terminal. Check ohmmeter reads 0 ohms.

4) Install tubeless tire valve (without valve insert) on threads of switch.

5) Connect air pressure hose to pressure gauge ( at valve).

6) Increase pressure carefully. Check that ohmmeter goes to infiniity at about 1.5 bar.

7) Drop pressure slowly until ohmmeter again reads 0 ohms. Pressure should be between 1.1 and 1.4 bar.

If necessary, replace pressure limiting switch.
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Old 09-14-2007, 06:41 PM
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Thanks Nathan,
I shall make a special doofer tool part number 23/1.1-1.4/930 which will house the switch and allow a plumb in for a tee gauge and pressure. Another for my collection of special tools.
I just like to keep things close to original if I can, hence I will try and locate an airbox over time. May be a bit hard to source.
Regards
Alan
Old 09-14-2007, 06:42 PM
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Thanks Spuggy,
No I didn't mean you suggested I lock the diff - but the effect you described rings true from my experience.
Sounds like I should replace my ZF diff - assuming thats what I have. And it appears that looking at the internals will be pretty much the only way.
Fascinating article posted. Tells pretty well everything. Have saved it.
Thanks, and for the simple special tool for the over pressure valve.
Saved me some workshop time.
Alan
Old 09-14-2007, 07:09 PM
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I bet someone here has an airbox they could sell you.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 09-15-2007, 12:25 AM
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Hello!

Much better way of checking overboost switch functionality is by doing it in-car. We do it often in the shop in dealership I work for. We have a big cylinder with a nipple that we connect to some rubber hose near the intake (on other side of rubber hose going to turbo-intake for example). Then we pressurize the whole intake to 0.8 bar (or what the typical boost is for the car).

First and foremost, we listen for leaks in the intake assembly and tighten it. Then you can raise the pressure to 1.1 bar while looking at ohmmeter connected to boost witch and check that it trips around 1.1 bar.

That way you can check for intake/intercooer leaks and test overboost switch without deassembling anything. Any bigger shoup should have this setup, consisting of three-four nippled cylinders of different diameters, pressure regulator, big boost gauge and a nipple to connect to shop-air.
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Old 09-15-2007, 03:23 AM
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Guys, my 930 arrived this morning on a ship.
Engine finally running, once it got some fuel thru. Sounds tight and quiet.
The car seems to have lots of aftermarket goodies (remember I bought this via auction fromsomeoen who does not seem to speak english and I dont speak japanese). Trying to work out what I actually have. It is an 82 930.
It has a fan cooled oil cooler up front - is this normal?
It has EBC.
Have posted some pics - the headers I take to be non -standard.
Is the turbo standard - it has a KKK stamp in a triangle on the housing.
There is a plate on it with lots of numbers - 3LDZ (or 2?). 113 1426, and then a long serial No. It feels quite progressive under boost - not as vicious as I was expecting. Went to 0.8 Bar with the EBC off, then I chickened out and backed off in case it went further - until I check things out.
Is the wastegate system standard?
There is a switch terminal just below the intercooler with no wire on it. Is this a temp sensor?
Thanks
Alan

Old 10-24-2007, 06:51 PM
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Congratulations! I'll try to fill in with what I can see from your new pictures.

The turbo is a stock unit with an aftermarket inlet hose (blue) It's got the aftermarket turbo oil catch tank to make room for the GHL headers. (with aeroquip hose leading to the turbo oil scavenge pump) See the post on "cam spray bar autopsy" for more trivia about this setup) The wastegate is stock with a simple "J" tube (no muffler)

The switch below the intercooler could be the overboost switch or the sensor for the dash mounted gauge (the one in the tach) The overboost switch is small like an oil temp sensor.

Post more pics if you are curious about anything. I just put mine back together, so I'm willing to play trivial pursuit with 930 parts ;-)

P.S. Oh, and yes the fan cooled oil cooler is normal.
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'86 930 Kokeln IC, K27-7200, SC cams, GHL headers, Fabspeed muffler, Short R&P , misc other mistakes made...
Old 10-24-2007, 07:39 PM
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which bits?

Tried a posting y/day which did not seem to work.
On the attached pic, I wish I could edit it and put some arrows.
But there are two switches. The white one at rear left corner of plenum chamber I take to be the overboost switch? It is not connected to anything on my beast. If that is the overboost switch, what is the big red one in the front middle? It has two terminals, but one wire on it.
On the intake pipe with blue seal there is a slight amount of oil in the lip. The pipes themselves seem clean. Is this an issue?
Thx
Alan
Old 10-25-2007, 11:10 AM
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Hey Alan,

The white switch *is* the overboost switch. If the rest of the system is wired normally there is a white wire that used to come from the electrical cover on the left side of the engine compartment. This wire must be grounded for the fuel pumps to run.

The big red one is the sensor for the dashboard boost meter (in the tach dial) it's generally not too accurate and the clock-hole mounted ones are better.

That amount of oil doesn't seem unusual from my experience. How hard it's been driven lately and how much time makes the amount of oil vary.

I still have the original (and much maligned) Dilivar head studs in my car. I have 111k miles on the bottom end and no broken studs. I suspect the secret here is fully cycling the temperature of the engine whenever you drive the car. People have more trouble with them if they just pull the car out or the garage, wash it, go once around the block and then park it again. Fully warming up and actually driving these cars seems to make them last longer. (Besides it's a good excuse to drive it more ;-)
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'86 930 Kokeln IC, K27-7200, SC cams, GHL headers, Fabspeed muffler, Short R&P , misc other mistakes made...
Old 10-25-2007, 12:02 PM
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Many thanks, this is starting to make sense. The unfortunate bit is the engine has been hacked around a lot - so I have sensors with no wires attached, plumbing with hoses blanked off etc.
If you look at the last pic on the mid LHS you can just see a white wire. It is hooked on to a red wire which goes to earth. So, the o/boost switch has been earthed out. About to pressurise system and check out the switch which probably has not worked for some time.
The car has a clock boost gauge, the original tacho is not there. Does the factory boost gauge normally have two wires on the terminals - mine has only one?
There are two sensors on the rear top of the engine block, ie behind and right of the throttle link unit.
What do they do - the more central one (more inboard) is not connected to anything.
Thx
Alan
Old 10-25-2007, 01:13 PM
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Hey Alan,

My factory boost sensor only had one wire connected to it. It was useless because the reading just floated around when it was connected.

On the back of the engine the red sender is the oil pressure switch which handles the oil pressure light on the dash. The other sender on top of the removable plate might be engine temp (as the underside doesn't have a hole in it). I am not sure of this though.

I know oil temp is on the right side of the fan near the oil pressure gauge sender. There is also a thermo-time switch in the left cam-chain cover. It has two terminals and is used for warm-up.
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'86 930 Kokeln IC, K27-7200, SC cams, GHL headers, Fabspeed muffler, Short R&P , misc other mistakes made...
Old 10-25-2007, 04:52 PM
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Many thanks Andy,
I have a sensor on what looks like the crankcase breather plate - with nothing hooked to it, but my oil temp works. I have always figured the oil temp/engine temp are the same thing. I have two senders on the RHS cam cover - as you look from rear - which I thought were pressure/temp.
I have also just found an electrical socket with about 5 pins, attached to the side of the throttle body housing - on the butterfly side near the WUR.
There is nothing plugged in to it. Any idea what this does?
This machine is going to keep me occupied for some time.
The o/boost switch works - at about 1 bar. At least something works. Reconnected now.
Thx
Alan
Old 10-25-2007, 08:41 PM
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If I remember from the Bosh fuel injection book there is a need to determine what the engine temp is for triggering the little heater in the WUR. Now that you have me curious I'll have to look around for what that second sensor is on the oil breather. It's listed in the parts book as a "temp switch" which is what the sensor in the top of the right cam cover is listed as. One must be for the injection and another for a warning light perhaps?

The plug near the throttle body sounds like the throttle position switch. Is it black and the plug sits long-side vertical?

My weapons of choice for identifying these things are the PET on CD from our host and the factory service manual. I understand the Bentley book is good too, but I haven't bought one yet. I've gotten to the point of taking notes when I see something suspicious that might need replacing :-)

It's beginning to sound like your previous owner disconnected the startup/warmup parts of the injection. On a modified car that was set up rich I can see that some of that stuff wouldn't matter, but I don't know that I would be able to list what could come off and what couldn't.

Maybe I can match up the bits you are seeing to the pictures I took of mine when the engine was out. I got quite the education ;-)
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'86 930 Kokeln IC, K27-7200, SC cams, GHL headers, Fabspeed muffler, Short R&P , misc other mistakes made...
Old 10-25-2007, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
Many thanks Andy,
I have a sensor on what looks like the crankcase breather plate - with nothing hooked to it, but my oil temp works.
This one? It's the oil pressure "idiott light" switch. Quite important thing, IMHO.

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Old 10-26-2007, 01:13 AM
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I have just discovered a great way of seeing the back of the engine. Point the camera and if you take enough pics, you will get lucky.
The terminal I have that is connected is the same as Beep Beeps, which I take to be the idiot light.
The one I am pondering is just hidden, further in. behind a cable. This has nothing connected, and seems to be on the breather plate.
But with the advantage of the picture, I see what appears to be another terminal off the breather plate, further in - with a piece of hose looped over it.
Any guesses on these - my oil temp/pressures gauges work OK.
If the throttle position sensor is disconnected what effect will this have,and why would they do it? I cannot find the plug. What does it loop in to?
The car is idling very fast -2000rpm. It started off cold at about 1200, which seemed fine. I expected it to drop to 900 when warm, but it increased to 2000.
Even with the idle screw wound right in, it is still too fast. Something is wrong here. The throttle linkages are all fully shut at idle.
Thx
Alan
Old 10-26-2007, 02:51 PM
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Hey Alan,

My guess on the high speed idle is that they tried to "clean up" the cold-start and warm-up features as "unnecessary" . It's going to be and uphill battle to restore those if they cut things out of the harness.

From your picture here's what I see. You have black harness material where mine is brown. The wire going to the idiot light sensor comes out of the same harness on mine as the wire to the "temp switch" that we don't know for sure what it's purpose is. The vacuum switch on the breather that's looped back is visible in my pic (my secret photography trick is to take the engine out ;-) connects to the throttle on one side and the distributor on the other side. Here I have that distributor hose removed because I had to replace it. This provides for retard to the distributor during warm-up as I understand it.

If you can find all the ends to the harness cover, you might discover some mystery wires that are disconnected. Hopefully they are there, just tucked away.

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'86 930 Kokeln IC, K27-7200, SC cams, GHL headers, Fabspeed muffler, Short R&P , misc other mistakes made...
Old 10-26-2007, 09:28 PM
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Many thanks Andy, the pic is most helpful.
I'm getting to the point where I am thinking of pulling the engine out to try and sort this out. But apparently it was only put back in 500 km ago. I cannot find any spare wires as yet. Neither can I find any chopped harness.
On the ends of the LH and RH cam covers I find a sensor switch. Neither is connected. Again, no spare wires - the only one I have found to date is the over boost switch.
Is the middle switch on the back of yr engine wired to something - can't see from pic.
Has your turbo oil line got a pressure switch on it - if so where, I can't find one on mine.
Your pic is most helpful. Found another one on the F/S board which shows the colour coding to the cam cover switches - maybe I can track those down via wiring diag.
Thx
Alan
Old 10-27-2007, 09:41 AM
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Hey Alan,

Yes, that middle sensor has a wire connected to it. It's called a temp switch in the diagram and the underside of it that pokes through the breather plate is solid brass indicating that it's temp related rather than pressure. You can see in this next picture that the wire to that middle sender comes out of the same harness as the one for the idiot light. I don't remember the color and I think you can see that it's covered by a brown sleeve here.



The pressure switch on the turbo oil line is the red one seen in the picture above. The oil comes out of the top of the engine below the red sender. There is a ball bearing in there as a check valve and the oil line to the turbo comes off as a banjo fitting. The oil sender shown just screws into the top of the banjo bolt. This is one of those frequent leaker parts and should be replaced whenever you get access to it.
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'86 930 Kokeln IC, K27-7200, SC cams, GHL headers, Fabspeed muffler, Short R&P , misc other mistakes made...
Old 10-27-2007, 10:44 AM
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