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Alan L's Avatar
 
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thanks

Thank you - thought as much, altho still coming to grips with this turbo bit.
Was about to pull it apart, but wanted to know what I should be looking for in case not obvious. You can see top left one new nut on the housing seal. There is another just on other side of banjo. Looks like has been apart very recently - suspect they just bolted it back together and put back on car and into auction.
This thing is turning into bit of a mission, but slowly we get there. You guys are keeping me on track.
Thanks
Alan
Old 11-14-2007, 10:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #61 (permalink)
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This is what you'll find inside (from other thread). Membrane is easy to tear when assembling back the stuff, so be gentle and don't rotate the bell.
Stephen at Imagineauto should have new membrane in stock. Check valve seat for wear, do some light grinding (with grinding paste) if you find uneven surface.

Looking forward to read your impressions when car is back on the road and running.

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Last edited by beepbeep; 11-15-2007 at 04:31 AM..
Old 11-15-2007, 04:28 AM
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Well, I got it apart OK - I used my press to hold it together while I let the nuts off. Then let the pressure off the press.
I found the thread with the pic you posted, and a link to disassembly - which I could not seem to load.
I can't get my valve out. I presume it comes out the bottom, and the face seems to sit on a plate over 4 studs - which I'm asssuming is detachable. Except mine is not. It seems to have welded itself to the studs and the body - assuming it is supposed to come off. The diaphragm looks OK - nothing obvious at least. There have been 2 new studs inserted in the housing body. Whether they have recently changed the spring I don't know. Annoying they are not colour coded.
But the valve is not seating very well and I would like to clean it up. When I shine a torch down the tail pipe I can see light around the valve. And there seems to be a chunk of carbon on the seat. I could try and do all this with the valve in place, but obviously better if I can get it out.
Does the diaphragm just fold back down on to the body base and seal under the cap lip? I wonder of it was not sealed up properly in the first place - ie not under the lip?
One day I'm gonna drive this thing. Parts from Pelican arrive today - more work - rotors, pads etc.
Have I told you about the gearbox?
Regards
Alan
Old 11-15-2007, 09:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #63 (permalink)
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Well I finally got the valve out. That bottom plate I suspect has never been off. Was not pretty - oxy acetylene, cold chisel etc. Just as well though - it was not carbon build up, the seat was non existent. Just a series of cuts and dents. You can get a rough idea by looking around the edge of the new seat I cut. A few Pelicans probably saying'get a Tial'. But I don't have funds for upgrades at moment - just essentials.
The boost spring, if I read other threads right is a 1 bar (6 3/4"). So, I have dispensed with that for the meantime, and am getting a 0.7 made up. Can do that locally - easier than ordering one in, and will cost maybe $20.
Still not sure why the unit could not pressurise - can only assume was incorrectly assembled around the lip. We will see, when my new spring arrives in a few days.
Alan
Old 11-16-2007, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
and am getting a 0.7 made up.
I've had two factory wastegates on my '78, both are supposed to have stock springs. Different headers (factory '78 RoW, GHL), but both ran with open dump pipes - which only helps to dump excess accurately.

With either wastegate, my mechanical VDO gauge shows boost being regulated at 12.5 PSI - which I make 0.8 bar.

It's one of those things that the factory manuals are vague on - it just tells you not to exceed 1.5 bar when testing the wastegate operation...

I believe the 965's were 0.7 bar - think Nathan posted that the factory gauge on those only reads up that high...
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Old 11-16-2007, 10:26 AM
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I think the 930 is .7bar stock.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 11-16-2007, 12:52 PM
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I spent some time with my spring mate on the floor with a set of bathroom scales compressing various similar springs , including my one. Compressed down to working length in the housing, it was showing about 100lb (that is the force it pops out of the can at you - a mean spring) . My only conclusion is that a 1 bar spring requires another 14 1b to open the valve some unspecified amount to allow a dump.
So, if my assessment of this spring at 1 bar (6 3/4") is correct, it is not hard to make one up to 70% working pressure at same compressed length. Can check on the scales prior - it should be reading 70 lb. My boost gauge should tell me the rest. Not looking foward to putting it back in the can tho.
Alan
Old 11-16-2007, 01:19 PM
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Well, I has two softer springs made up. Now that my wastegate is working properly I was able to test them. There was no gas going past the diaphragm and almost none past the valve - so I could pressurise the can easily. Turns out the 6 3/4" spring cracks at 0.7 bar. So, I don't need my softer ones, which were cracking at 0.55 -0.6 bar.
But to watch the wastegate work is poetry in motion. I can only assume the diaphragm was not put in properly, and the unit never tested - not to mention the non-existent valve seat.
One day I'm gonna drive this thing.
Alan
Old 11-19-2007, 11:24 PM
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Great! You just spared yourself fuss of installing Tial aftermarket item. OEM wastegate is a very good design, when it works properly.

It's hard to know what boost your parrticular spring is making by just observing when it cracks open when pressurized off the car. It depends on what kind of backpressure you have after the turbo, if wastegate dumps into free air etc. But you will be OK. 0.7-0.85 bar is OK with stock CIS. Even if your wastegate spring is somewhat soft, it's easy to raise it with T-orifice or EBC.

What's left to do?

I suggest checking ignition timing, plugs (for wear) and doing a run with WBO2 before gunning it. Also, do a leakdown test on all cylinders. If PO drove this car with a ruptured wastegate (and overboost switch working), there is a chance of cracked top compression rings. Car will still run with rings in pieces but there will be lot's of blow-by. If overboost switch is deleted and wastegate still overboosting, boost will deadhead around 1.3 bar which is too much for pistons and CIS.
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Last edited by beepbeep; 11-20-2007 at 01:05 AM..
Old 11-20-2007, 12:54 AM
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I have checked and re set the ignition timing - retarded it 5 deg from where it was. It is hard to know, (for me anyway) where it should really be set - I'm not sure I have the right vacuum can - I have a single nipple one on a 68H series motor. So, not sure what specs to set it at - but have set it at 26 deg , no vac, at 4000 rpm. It must have been at 31 deg.
Still waiting for O2 sensor to arrive.
Have not done leak down before - I guess I will need another special tool. Sounds like a wise suggestion though.
Have installed new rotors and pads. Two frozen bleed nipples. When was the system last bled?? One of them tore metal out when I got it free with oxy acetylene. Not sure what to do with that one.
Leak down coming up.
Regards
Alan
Old 11-20-2007, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
Have installed new rotors and pads. Two frozen bleed nipples. When was the system last bled?? One of them tore metal out when I got it free with oxy acetylene. Not sure what to do with that one.
Leak down coming up.
Regards
Alan
You could drill the nipple-hole to next dimension, cut new threads and install oversize nipple, for example. Just clean out the fillings afterwords.

I usually "excersize" the pistons on old calipers by pushing them out and pressing them in couple of times. Do not press the brake pedal all the way to the bottom as MBC seals might go past the presumed dirt ridge and get damaged. I press out the pistons as far as I feel confident, lift rubber seal from the piston with small screwdriver (w/o damaging it) and spray penetrating oil trough the exposed crack. After that they usually move much easier. As far as I remember, there are two steel plates inbetwen caliper halves and it's often corroded (probably due to galvanic current between Fe-Al). It should be cleaned as pads might jam on them.
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Old 11-20-2007, 02:14 PM
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Thanks Goran, I did not know you could get oversize bleed nipples. I was contemplating what to do when your reply turned up. I was wondering if it can be helicoiled - but it is a slightly unusal thread - 10x 1.0 mm. I will investigate oversize nipple first.
Before compressing the pistons for new pads I carefully cleaned the pistons with brake fluid. I had the calipers off - many seized brake union fittings too - almost had to drop the motor for one. Was replacing hoses. I was a bit scared to use penetrating oil on the pistons - but would have preferred to. Thought brake fluid may be safer. Will use the oil next time. I cleaned the pad slider plates and sized the pads to just move snugly. Had to skim a few thou off the metal on some.
Next project - make up leak down tester, and now to remove pedal box, so I can get at clutch cable fork.
One day I'm gonna drive this thing.
Alan
Old 11-20-2007, 02:37 PM
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leak down test

I tried posting this y/day - so hopefully it does not come up twice.
Made up a leak down tester as in pic. Ideally both gauges would be the same, but I was using my CIS 100 psi test gauge as the inlet side, but could not buy another one same. Setting the inlet pressure at 100 has an advantage with the maths - altho most leak downs seem to be done at 150 psi. It took both my hands to hold the engine steady at 100 psi, and my compressor does not go to 150. I don't think this will make a big difference to the numbers - someone correct me if I am wrong.
I put a small soft metal (not high tensile) blanking plug in between the gauges and drilled a 1 mm hole in it. That is why it is not high tensile. The plug was tapered so would not go fully in, so I recut the thread with a die nut. The hose was a standard grease gun extension hose, and my plug insert used to be a spark plug that had the porcelain ground/punched out. The tube was thin walled 1/2" galv pipe which had the perfect diameter to fit in the plug body and internal diameter to tap with 1/4"BSP for the snap on nipple.
A small regulator valve ($35) controlled the inlet pressure. It may not be the most accurate beast, but I think it worked well enough to tell me if I had any serious internal issues. If you wanted to spend more money, two widescale calibrated gauges would be good. I 'calibrated' mine by putting my finger over the plug end - they should both read 100 - and did within about 2 psi - which I allowed for by correcting my inlet pressure by 2 psi so the leak pressure could be read directly.
My results were all between 96-98% , so I take this to be good news finally.
Finally I have checked something and found it to be OK. They may even be slightly higher in that I am assuming there is no leak at the O ring on the end of the spark plug. Hard to know how much to tighten that.
So, almost there - getting bleed nipple repaired, fixing the 'over length' clutch cable - missing clevis pin bush, chewed out clevis pin and lever, and still waiting for AFR, which must be near.
Thanks for the help guys. May have some AFR Q's depending how that all works out when running. Have EGT installed now.
Regards
Alan
Old 11-26-2007, 09:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #73 (permalink)
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Nice. I think your Galv 1/2" pipe may be 3/8".
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 11-26-2007, 01:07 PM
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I'm not sure how pipe sizes work - but the ID is about 12.5 mm, as close as I can guess it now - I don't have any more pipe - scrounged that bit off a neighbour. The OD is 15.5 mm.
So, not quite sure what that makes it, except a perfect size for a leak down tester.
I posted the construction details and gave the topic a title of 'leak down', so hopefully others who want to make one can find the info. I searched thru about 20 pages of archive search without finding anything, but it did exist in there somewhere.
Regards
Alan
Old 11-26-2007, 02:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #75 (permalink)
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It's pretty cool, just didn't want somebody to order the wrong size pipe as I think people will use this info if they want to build one.

Good job!
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 11-27-2007, 08:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #76 (permalink)
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Hi Nathan. Agree. I had a thick wall piece of galv pipe that had the same ID, but was too thick to fit in the spark plug body. I could have turned it down in the lathe to fit. But stumbled on the thin wall size that just snuck into the spark plug body with no alteration. So, this would be the better size for most people - they don't need any machine work. They do need to be able to weld the plug body completely to the pipe tho - or else they will get a leak. I tested my weld in a bucket of water.
Regards
Alan
Old 11-27-2007, 09:21 AM
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Here in the UK the thick galv pipes are for water & the thin galv pipes are for electrical conduit.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 11-27-2007, 12:38 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #78 (permalink)
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To finish this thread, the reader will need to go to;
fuel pump relays and
CIS fuel head
Hopefully you will find something of use.
Alan
Old 12-05-2007, 03:38 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #79 (permalink)
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Alan, you didn't link them right. Please try again.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 12-07-2007, 02:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #80 (permalink)
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