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3.3 turbu cylinders

I am rebuilding my motor, and there is a set of new Mahle pistons and cylinders for sale, but the cylinders are full finned. The ones I have seen are all half finned, why the differance, and which ones are better. Also my 930 is a 1989 and the cylinders and pistons are for a C2, what would my 89 be, and will the set work on mine. The price for the set is $2100.00, seems like a great price for the set as long as there are no cooling issues with the full finned cylinders. Any input would be appreciated, thanks.
Old 09-15-2007, 06:46 PM
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Fully finned is the way to go. Hopefully someone techincal will tell you how to fit them. The half finned was a theory by Porsche that didn't really work out.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg

Last edited by NathanUK; 09-15-2007 at 11:44 PM..
Old 09-15-2007, 11:33 PM
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Yeh, the 965 set is a direct fit to a 930 as I understand it, there was a Rennlist thread about an Ebay seller who had about 20 brand new sets for sale around the beginning of the year.

I think the original theory with the half-finned cylinders was to reduce problems due to severe and rapid thermal buildup. Motorcycle drag racers of the period would machine off all the fins for the same reason.
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Old 09-16-2007, 01:07 AM
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thank you both for your input
Old 09-16-2007, 01:53 AM
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The C2 turbo cylinders will work on the earlier 3.3l engines. Just be sure to install the viton o-ring seals that go on the base of the cylinders. Also, check your deck height with the new cylinders. The C2 used head gaskets (which you do not need) which may give you different deck height values. Good luck.
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Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 09-16-2007, 06:49 AM
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The fins were not actually ever removed from the turbo cylinders. What happened is Porsche added material to the cylinders that filled in the gaps between the fins which in effect, removed the fins. The intent was to control distortion under extreme heat cycles with additional strength acheived by greater wall thickness.
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Past rides: '74 914 1.9 liter twin plugged track car, '83 928S, '87 924S, '75 911S w '78 ROW 3.0, '72 911T, '70 911T and various other insignificant domestic examples. Happiness is a grey tailpipe! Turbo lag......it's worth the wait!
Old 09-16-2007, 11:21 AM
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I also bought a set of the C2 turbo cylinders to rebuild my 85 930. The viton o-rings on the base of the cylinders seem to be pretty straightforward, but I am a little concerned about the head gaskets. If the head gasket is not used on the 930 will the C2 cylinders seal OK? How does one adjust the deck height if the head gasket is not used (shims under the cylinders)? Has anyone done this install? Thanks.

Tom Oxner
Old 09-21-2007, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Oxner View Post
I also bought a set of the C2 turbo cylinders to rebuild my 85 930. The viton o-rings on the base of the cylinders seem to be pretty straightforward, but I am a little concerned about the head gaskets. If the head gasket is not used on the 930 will the C2 cylinders seal OK? Tom Oxner
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Oxner View Post
How does one adjust the deck height if the head gasket is not used (shims under the cylinders)? Tom Oxner
Yes, I used the cylinder/spigot base gaskets (.5mm). I don't know what the original thickness of the factory base gaskets were, but I suspect .25mm. This combination of base gasket without head gasket gave me a deck height of .035". I have never measured the thickness of the factory C2 head gaskets, but suspect they are something less than .25mm.
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 09-21-2007, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Oxner View Post
I also bought a set of the C2 turbo cylinders to rebuild my 85 930. The viton o-rings on the base of the cylinders seem to be pretty straightforward, but I am a little concerned about the head gaskets. If the head gasket is not used on the 930 will the C2 cylinders seal OK? How does one adjust the deck height if the head gasket is not used (shims under the cylinders)? Has anyone done this install? Thanks.

Tom Oxner
I NEEDED the C2 head gasket on my 87 when I swapped to these P&C's. I think you'll find that the heads have a .75mm relief or shelf cut into them, and the C2 cylinder has a .25mm deck (the 930 cyllinders have a .75mm deck, at least mine did). I needed the .50mm head gaskets, and I found out the hard way - I had to pull the motor apart again when I discovered I had 'zero' compression. You'll need the viton o-rings to seal the cylinders to the crankcase too.

Pat K
87 930
Old 09-21-2007, 06:33 PM
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Pat, did you use the cylinder spigot base shims/gaskets the first time round?
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 09-25-2007, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanUK View Post
Pat, did you use the cylinder spigot base shims/gaskets the first time round?
No. The C2 cylinders are not designed to use those base gaskets - they use o-rings.

The heads sealing on the cylinders is not an issue of deck height - the heads have a relief machined into them, and the C2 cylinder does not have a lip that is tall enough to fit tight into that relief, so the head 'butts' up against the cylinder fins with a gap in between the head relief and the cylinder. I used a depth gauge to measure the relief and the cylinder lip on both the C2 and the 930 cylinders. The C2 'lip' was either 0.5 mm or 1mm shorter than the 930 cylinder lip (I can't remember which it was as I sit here at my desk), and the relief in the heads corresponded to the 930 cylinder lip exactly (as expected, they seal without a head gasket). The head gasket thickness is the exact difference to fill the 'gap' from the lower C2 lip.

Pat K
87 930

Last edited by kellcats521; 09-25-2007 at 11:16 AM..
Old 09-25-2007, 11:07 AM
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Ah, OK. I wrongly presumed that the top of the cylinders (930 or C2T) were perfectly flat.

Also, where do the o'rings fit/go?
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg

Last edited by NathanUK; 09-25-2007 at 12:04 PM..
Old 09-25-2007, 11:56 AM
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Here is a pic of a 930 cylinder where you can see the 'lip' - the C2 'lip' does not protrude as high as the 930s....


The o-ring goes around the cylinder base where it fits into the crankcase spigot - it seals the cylinder/crankcase 'joint' along the outside cylinder wall rather than sealing the bottom surface against the crankcase (as the base gaskets/shims do)

Pat K
Old 09-25-2007, 12:21 PM
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We used the o-ring and the gasket with a copper coat spray on the gasket IIRC.
Old 09-25-2007, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A930Rocket View Post
We used the o-ring and the gasket with a copper coat spray on the gasket IIRC.
+1
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 09-26-2007, 05:05 AM
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Ah, OK. So the cylinder has a groove all the way round on the outside at the case end for the o'ring to sit in.

Also the heads on our cars are not flat, they have a recess.

Thanks guys.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg

Last edited by NathanUK; 09-26-2007 at 11:02 AM..
Old 09-26-2007, 10:55 AM
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