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930 Headers

I have been thinking about doing some upgrades to my 87 930. Read a bunch of posts on this forum and I am still a bit confused about headers. Seems like there are the expensive ones like GHL and B&B and some relatively cheap ones like OBX and GSF. I also know of Schnell but have not seen them mentioned much here. I do not mind paying the price if it is worth it but also do not want to pay more if I do not have to. Is there any consensus on which way to go? By the way I probably will not be using heater boxes on the headers. Thanks
Old 09-26-2007, 06:14 PM
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I hear alot of talk on the SSI's. Give Rarelyl8 a shout. I personally bought mine with B&B's already on it. I may have a leak!
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Last edited by Akila; 09-26-2007 at 07:06 PM..
Old 09-26-2007, 07:04 PM
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I don't know from personal experience but from what I've read the GSF headers are the best bang for the buck.
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:04 PM
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I do not know who makes the best (no heat) headers right now, there seems to be a lot of turmoil in the industry due to materials costs and Chinese manufacturers. I'd love to sell you a set of SSIs but you can probably save $500 by purchasing headers without heat.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 09-26-2007, 08:15 PM
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Brian, I live on the west coast of Canada. The idea of headers without heat does not work for me.
I drive a Euro issue car without cats, and I have also removed all of the air pump gear from the exhaust. In your opinion, would I gain all that much going to an aftermarket system? Also can I buy an SSI system WITH heat exchangers?
Many thx
DB
'85 Euro
Old 09-27-2007, 06:22 AM
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I put a set of non-heat schnell headers on mine about 18 months ago. The welding work was ordinary at best and my mechanic did have to 'work' with them to prevent a leak at a mounting flange as they weren't quite true when a straight bar was laid across the top the mounting faces. No cracks or leaks since installing though, I think I paid about $900.00 for them. I do miss the heat in winter. Good Luck.
Old 09-27-2007, 06:43 AM
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SSIs come with the best heat exchangers in the industry.
The increases seen by headers are dependant upon the mods of your engine. If your engine is a bone stock Euro you will see about a 5% HP increase or so but more importantly the torque off boost will be improved which in turn improves driveability. The HP improvements will be more dramatic when combined with other engine modifications.
The best bang for the buck on a stock Euro (in my opinion) would be a non restrictive muffler followed by an upgraded turbo.
Your stock Euro exchangers have enough flow to allow bolt-ons such as turbos and higher boost springs to enhance your engine. I run them on my car to do all baseline testing.
If you are looking to begin the process of improving driveability then headers become an important upgrade. If your goal is simply adding some HP, a non-restricive muffler and modern turbo will serve you better for the money spent. Of couse adding headers to that mix makes it all that much better.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 09-27-2007, 07:03 AM
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If Rarly's SSi product turns out to fit right for most applications (it is still a developmental product to some degree) than they will be very good quality due to the expensive metals used, and they will heat the hell out of you in the winter compared to some heat exchangers. Brian is not going to stiff anyone, so you can buy from him without concern if a problem should arise.

Honestly though, I just took some old SSI designed headers off my car and got more power and better throttle response and less weight with B+B headers. They were in good shape after probably 15 years, but they have twice as much pipe length. I felt a difference in performance going to B+B from SSI.

A lot of the things that are said about SSI are true, they are good quality and give good heat. But B+Bs make power and decrease lag in my back to back informal comparison. And they weigh a lot less, probably 10-15 pounds less.

B+Bs also fit right the first time compared to a lot of the cheaper headers out there. People complain sometimes about them not lasting, so longevity is a potential issue, which is not the case with SSI.

If you just want a header without heat, then you can go the cheap route with the GSF/OBX/Schnell/Danske product which quite frankily all seems to be the same product. But the heat tubes make the install even more difficult according to some people, so I would go B+B for heat or SSI for heat and quality, at the expense of some performance.

I think SSI and B+B sort of have different strengths and are aimed at a different market. You have quality and really hot heat versus performance and less heat/quality. I live in Virginia so heat was only a marginal concern for me. But if it is below zero and you like to drive a 930, no question the SSI would be better and the performance gap wouldn't be noticed in that kind of weather because you would be producing a lot more HP in cold air anyway.
Old 09-27-2007, 09:41 AM
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The current SSI 930 system is likely not the same as what you used.
The Y-pipe junction on the current SSI system is designed to optimise the exhaust pulse timing of the equal length primaries. The result is greater torque off-boost.
If I ever get time to work on my own car again I will dyno a set and show the torque curve.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 09-27-2007, 10:32 AM
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How do the SSI's run? Are they like the travel like the euro style (around the front of the motor), like the early us (meet in the center), or another way completely? Anyone have a pic handy?

- Skip
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Old 09-27-2007, 11:39 AM
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Check Out My Latest Project
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 09-27-2007, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by equality72521 View Post
I don't know from personal experience but from what I've read the GSF headers are the best bang for the buck.
I would have to agree...



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Old 09-27-2007, 12:49 PM
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I wanted a set of B&B or GHL but I didn't want to pay that price. I was just about to pull the trigger on a set of GSF but then I found a used entire GHL exhaust system in the PP Classifieds. I got the entire system for, what I think, a great deal. All I'm getting at is if you want the B&B or GHL just keep your eyes open in the classifieds and you might be able to get a good used set. Otherwise, I don't think you could have gone wrong with the GSF. Of course the SSIs on there is probably the absolute best way to go.
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Old 09-27-2007, 01:50 PM
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one thing to note here is this ssi set up has been developed from years of experience from john daniels of ssi. He is a no comprimise guy and he has a personal 930 and runs this setup on his car. I run it on mine and Brian is completing the entire kit up so it will be bolt on for you guys. so proven designs just putting the finishing touches on a great design. I assure you this will be the best on the market without question
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Old 09-27-2007, 01:58 PM
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DDDD, I think Danske headers are of the stock design, not short like B&B.
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Old 09-27-2007, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
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DDDD, I think Danske headers are of the stock design, not short like B&B.
Well to complicate things further, Stephen of IA is saying that the 'danske' product is not the same as 'dansk', so who knows what is out there?
Old 09-27-2007, 03:28 PM
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I believe that Dansk, the OEM for Porsche exhausts, is no longer in business.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 09-27-2007, 05:32 PM
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Any idea when this setup will be available?



Quote:
Originally Posted by mb911 View Post
one thing to note here is this ssi set up has been developed from years of experience from john daniels of ssi. He is a no comprimise guy and he has a personal 930 and runs this setup on his car. I run it on mine and Brian is completing the entire kit up so it will be bolt on for you guys. so proven designs just putting the finishing touches on a great design. I assure you this will be the best on the market without question
Old 09-28-2007, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 930Sweet View Post
Any idea when this setup will be available?

Brian will have them ready very shortly within weeks
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Old 09-28-2007, 06:06 PM
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Great! Please let me know.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mb911 View Post
Brian will have them ready very shortly within weeks
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Old 09-29-2007, 12:28 PM
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