Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Forced Induction Junkie
 
WERK I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,290
Garage
I just spoke with a 930 engine builder and racer in the area this morning. I told him my issue with the spray bar issue and he grinned and said the the oil return from the turbo sump pump is unfiltered when it returns to the oil resevoir. It's a known problem with dino oil and turbocharged engines with coking. He added an in line oil filter on the return line near the resevoir tank.
He said it was one of the stupidest things Porsche did......I have to agree.
__________________
Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 10-20-2007, 10:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #61 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cleveland, Georgia
Posts: 149
Well, it looks like we've hit upon the cause of our respective cam problems. You found just the right guy to confirm it. Does anyone happen to know the dimensions of the fittings on that oil hose that connects the hardline from the scavenge pump (over the bellhousing) to the fender tank? If we have both of those dimensions a remote mount oil filter kit and some aeroquip fittings should be standard equipment on our cars.

Thanks for researching that Dave...
__________________
Andy Glass
'86 930 Kokeln IC, K27-7200, SC cams, GHL headers, Fabspeed muffler, Short R&P , misc other mistakes made...
Old 10-20-2007, 06:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #62 (permalink)
Forced Induction Junkie
 
WERK I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,290
Garage
He mentioned using this filter assembly from Pegasus Racing;
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=185

DISCLAIMER: NOT AFFILIATED WITH PEGASUS in any way.

He also uses the late 964 oil filter assembly that mounts where the internal oil cooler mounts on our earlier engines.
__________________
Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P

Last edited by WERK I; 10-21-2007 at 04:04 AM.. Reason: image file corruption
Old 10-21-2007, 04:02 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #63 (permalink)
"I wuz the liquor..."
 
sand_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cooterville, Cackalacky
Posts: 6,398
Quote:
Originally Posted by WERK-I View Post
He mentioned using this filter assembly from Pegasus Racing;
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=185

DISCLAIMER: NOT AFFILIATED WITH PEGASUS in any way.

He also uses the late 964 oil filter assembly that mounts where the internal oil cooler mounts on our earlier engines.
That's pretty slick! I wonder if there is enough pumping power (sorry to get all technical ) from the turbo scavenge pump to get the oil through that filter and/or or any additional hose length. I guess the ideal thing to do would be to fabricate an entirely new oil tank return line with this filter incorporated into it...
__________________
-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 10-22-2007, 08:03 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #64 (permalink)
Registered User
 
E-man930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 624
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3217

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=901

seems a little easier if the line from the drip tank to the scavange pump is used...
Thoughts?
E-man
Old 10-22-2007, 08:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #65 (permalink)
Registered User
 
E-man930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 624
http://www.cmfilters.com/remote_filters/in-line_oil_filters.htm
Old 10-22-2007, 08:42 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #66 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
E-man930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 624
http://www.cmfilters.com/remote_filters/in-line_screen_filters.htm
Old 10-22-2007, 08:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #67 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,208
That filter element looks like it would let the stuff through that clogs spray bars and piston squirters.
Way too course a mesh.
Old 10-22-2007, 08:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #68 (permalink)
Registered User
 
E-man930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 624
last one...
I"m thinking of going with one of these on the sump line.

200-201708 Pro-Street Inline Oil Filter #8 AN Ends 75 micron
201-203708 Medium Billet Inline Oil Filter #8 AN Ends 75 micron
202-202708 Long Billet Inline Oil Filter, # 8 AN Ends 75 Micron

(scroll down to the bottom)
http://www.system1filters.com/oil_filters.htm

Last edited by E-man930; 10-22-2007 at 08:49 AM..
Old 10-22-2007, 08:46 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #69 (permalink)
Smart quod bastardus
 
fredmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA
Posts: 2,207
Garage
Anything you do should be installed on the output side of the turbo sump pump so that it is on the high pressure side of the pump. Meaning it should be installed ideally at the connection of the line to the oil tank, not in the line from the turbo catch tank to the pump. Any restrictions in the suction side of a pump is bad.
BTW, did anyone ever confirm for sure that the Sporto oil sump tank that the turbo uses does not filter the oil from the turbo sump pump thru the factory oil filter? I am amazed if Porsche did not think of this.
__________________
1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 10-23-2007, 03:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #70 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cleveland, Georgia
Posts: 149
Hey Fredmeister,

Dave (above) confirmed that the oil returning from the turbo is not filtered. Though, at least on some models of the factory oil catch tank (under the turbo) there is a screen element. Apparently the factory added one at some point. I currently have the filter that Jfairman suggested after the catch tank and before the scavenge pump. It's got about 1000 miles on it and it's working fine. It's a 40 micron filter. I might move to after the pump as you suggest for a real filter. Maybe a screen is Ok before the pump and a filter should be after the pump as you suggest. So far so good. The experiment continues ;-)
__________________
Andy Glass
'86 930 Kokeln IC, K27-7200, SC cams, GHL headers, Fabspeed muffler, Short R&P , misc other mistakes made...

Last edited by ayglass; 10-23-2007 at 03:24 PM..
Old 10-23-2007, 03:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #71 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,208
If it isn't raining tomorrow I'm changing the oil in my car.
I'll try the airhose test...

the cheapest easiest way to service this problem would be a small remote mounted spin-on filter setup hooked up into the line from the turbo scavenge pump to the oil tank.
spin off the dirty oil filter, spin on a clean one... easy.

Probably a good idea to take off the turbo catch tank and rinse it out at least once too.

I'd like to make and braze in the special shrader valve like elephant racing uses to blow out their finned oil lines and front cooler with compressed air in there too.
Old 10-23-2007, 03:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #72 (permalink)
A fellow Pelacanite
 
NathanUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredmeister View Post
Anything you do should be installed on the output side of the turbo sump pump so that it is on the high pressure side of the pump. Meaning it should be installed ideally at the connection of the line to the oil tank, not in the line from the turbo catch tank to the pump. Any restrictions in the suction side of a pump is bad.
Yeah, they were my thoughts too.
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 10-23-2007, 04:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #73 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cleveland, Georgia
Posts: 149
Riddle me this...

I just crossed 1000 miles with the new cams. It's time for another oil change so I decided to jump the gun and remove the auxiliary filter that I installed inline between the turbo oil catch tank and the scavenge pump. You might remember my previous post showing all the little bits of carbon that I found in that filter at 200 miles.

This time, no carbon bits. Nothing. I turned the filter up into a paper towel and then opened it up to find nothing. So, lots of bits between 0 and 200 miles. No bits between 200 and 1200 miles. What happened?

I returned to Dino oil after the cam issue. I only used Mobil-1 for two oil changes prior to the cams and thought better of it. I don't understand. Did the synthetic break loose the carbon? Have I lost my mind?
__________________
Andy Glass
'86 930 Kokeln IC, K27-7200, SC cams, GHL headers, Fabspeed muffler, Short R&P , misc other mistakes made...
Old 10-29-2007, 08:30 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #74 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,208
Thats good news.

Today I blew compressed air into the oil tank at the fitting for the turbo scavenge pump oil line.
Air did not come out of the oil filter connection outer oil holes. If the oil is filtered from the turbo then it would have come out there.

Instead it came out of the fill spout, and the bottom drain hole and the center hole of the oil filter monting.
That proves oil from the turbo sump does not go through the oil filter.
Old 10-29-2007, 08:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #75 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cleveland, Georgia
Posts: 149
Thanks for running that test. I guess that confirms that we need to filter that line somehow. It's just a matter of how best to do it.
__________________
Andy Glass
'86 930 Kokeln IC, K27-7200, SC cams, GHL headers, Fabspeed muffler, Short R&P , misc other mistakes made...
Old 10-30-2007, 07:08 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #76 (permalink)
"I wuz the liquor..."
 
sand_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cooterville, Cackalacky
Posts: 6,398
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayglass View Post
Thanks for running that test. I guess that confirms that we need to filter that line somehow. It's just a matter of how best to do it.
I'm planning to put one of the Pegasus Racing filters (that WERK-I posted) on the return line from the scavenge pump to the oil tank.
__________________
-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 10-30-2007, 07:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #77 (permalink)
Registered User
 
DW SD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Encinitas (San Diego CA)
Posts: 4,495
Guys,
Peterson makes a nice filter as well. The medium has plenty of surface area. They are used by the NASCAR fellers. Used ones appear on ebay, not that you want to save a buck, the element is stainless, of very high quality and cleanable and reuseable.

I installed one between my engine sump outlet and the factory thermostat. 3.6 NA motor.

http://www.petersonfluidsys.com/pump_acc.html
__________________
1971 RSR - interpretation

Last edited by DW SD; 12-07-2007 at 02:33 PM..
Old 12-07-2007, 02:10 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #78 (permalink)
Registered User
 
DW SD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Encinitas (San Diego CA)
Posts: 4,495


I have this setup.

Doug
__________________
1971 RSR - interpretation

Last edited by DW SD; 12-07-2007 at 02:19 PM..
Old 12-07-2007, 02:13 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #79 (permalink)
Registered User
 
DW SD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Encinitas (San Diego CA)
Posts: 4,495
the filter lmedia looks like this. The media is a multilayered mesh of stainless steel. You can see it is either 70 or 100 microns. I paid $125 or something similar for -16AN.

__________________
1971 RSR - interpretation

Last edited by DW SD; 12-07-2007 at 02:26 PM..
Old 12-07-2007, 02:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #80 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:52 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.